Excedrin has put 1.51 up:
http://s14.invisionfree.com/DOWPRO/i...?showtopic=162
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Excedrin has put 1.51 up:
http://s14.invisionfree.com/DOWPRO/i...?showtopic=162
Such great news to be had on a saturday morning, happy you guys released it just in time for the weekend.
Works fine after first match.
damn it,what have u done to orks.they cant be killed faster then they reinforce.DAMN!!!!
yeah, the orks seemed to have gotten some love.
AFAIK faster reinforce replaced the damage reduction part of the Mob Bonus, it's much fairer then before, now they need at least some money to keep their army on the field.
Last edited by Tod; 21st Jan 06 at 2:15 PM.
Nice work! Could somebody (Excedrin) be so kind to put up a DPS chart?
Given that they're 2 different models, with different synckills and close-in attacks, It's probably for the best that the Chaos Lord keeps the Manreaper then.
Anyway.
Some things I'd like to see:
1. Stormbolter on Rhino/Chaos Rhino. I admit, courtesy of DoWPro, I actually use the Chaos Rhino now as an infantry supporter (smoke grenades can be decisive vs massed Shooty Orks and SM), but I'd be using it a heck of a lot more if it actually could defend itself.
2. Crackly power weapon effects for the Commissar and Imperial General come 2.00. A man can dream, can't he? XP
3. Improved unloading/loading scripts for the Transports.
4. A special little DoWPro Campaign! Either a balanced version of WA's, or perhaps a version of DoWs, from the standpoints of the other races. Or perhaps something completely new?
5. The bringing back of Sentinels that can be armed with various weapons. Anyone who's cracked the manual knows those things can mount different weapons, including a Heavy Flamer and Autocannon. It'd give the Guard some middle-tier flexibility, to boot.
1. Stormbolter on Rhino/Chaos Rhino. I admit, courtesy of DoWPro, I actually use the Chaos Rhino now as an infantry supporter (smoke grenades can be decisive vs massed Shooty Orks and SM), but I'd be using it a heck of a lot more if it actually could defend itself.
mmmm......I'm uncertain about this one since it means that we'd have to increase it's cost a bit. Which in turn will make it less likely to be taken. We'll see.
2. Crackly power weapon effects for the Commissar and Imperial General come 2.00. A man can dream, can't he? XP
indeed we can look into getting some sexy fx's
3. Improved unloading/loading scripts for the Transports.
no can do afaik. I need engine code!!! If i had engine code we could fix pathing and all kinds of shitty issues (of course it's rather likely that low end comps would cease to handle DoWpro...but that's something that comes with progress)
4. A special little DoWPro Campaign! Either a balanced version of WA's, or perhaps a version of DoWs, from the standpoints of the other races. Or perhaps something completely new?
the good news is that on my 34hrs of continuous travel from usa back home i wrote an entire 25 mission 5 race campaign. A interlinking storyline with some pretty cool twists and some very nice gameplay.
5. The bringing back of Sentinels that can be armed with various weapons. Anyone who's cracked the manual knows those things can mount different weapons, including a Heavy Flamer and Autocannon. It'd give the Guard some middle-tier flexibility, to boot.
No heavy flamer - it undervalues the hellhound (worse flamer but better mobility = better unit than hellhound). However, autocannon and lascannon will be included.
To Join the DoWpro Team - PM me!
The Hellhound isn't just a flamer. It's napalm. In WA, its primary use isn't a morale dealer (does that too), but it kills slowly via AoE.
That way, when your squad dies, it doesn't die 1 at a time and give you time to reinforce... your entire squad dies at the same time.
It renders horde-reinforce armies useless. That's the HH's primary offense function. I like it.
Therefore, HH napalm and Sent flamer will NOT overlap. In fact they're 2 flame weapons that serve very different functions.
I recommend allowing Sents to have all 3 of their weapons. ESPECIALLY since Guardsmen will not have flamers (it's completely broken Korbah... don't expect anyone to fix the Guardsmen flamer model anytime soon).
If you could make the Stormbolter for the Rhinos an upgrade like the Dreads that could work. The Rhino's base cost could be left alone thus you could use it as a cheap transport, etc but also give it some firepower if you have some spare req or the need arises. Options are nice.
all are good points:
- the IG flamer model is something i would like to work on however.
- I like the idea of upgradeable storm bolter.....I like it a lot. We'll have to see if it's doable.
- Good point about sent vs HH.....however, I'll have to see how the guardsmen flamer situation eventuates and also see how HH performs in game before I make a definative decision. Much of the IG stuff is still in the air - once we get the basics fully coded we can sit down and work out the more complex issues more readily. ATM it's a bit of theorycrafting.
Mlai's right when it comes to the HH: It's heavy flamer is vastly more powerful then the average versions found on troops or other vehicles. In fluff, HH promethium flamers can melt the armor on heavy troops and are very effective demolition weapons against bunkers and other well fortified structures.
Just my little rant.
:cranky:
The Commisar does not carry a power weapon. Thus it would be wrong to give it a power weapon fx'. If you want to give him a power weapon you also have to change the sword model too if you want to stay fluffyfied (nice word ^^). The General however has power claws.
@Jaimas: The CL has two different models. He has no sync kills at all (or does he?) and I think the animations are the same. Even if not, the way the CL figths is the same for each model including AoE attacks etc. (FC and Chaplain).
...
#614
Got a source for that?The Commisar does not carry a power weapon
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
@ Lord Korn: Commissar will have upgrade for power fist.
Hmm... have you changed any morale-related things concerning chaos?
I think they're OP in this release. Their morale-breaking capabilities are insane. Defilers seem to do WAY more morale damage than any other artillery, and they aren't even dedicated artillery. Furthermore, the Defiler's artillery makes infantry fly miles away. Looted Tanks, Fire Prisms and Whirlwinds just make infantry fall over, but the Defiler sends them straight to the moon...
Defilers overall are too strong IMHO. Dreads get 2000 HP and no ranged weapons to start with. Defilers get 2500 HP, a very strong autocannon and an insanely strong artillery.
Add to that the new researches which nullify morale regen and there you have a perma-broken army.
All other races T2 vehicles don't even come close. Trukks and Trakks are useful, but not as powerful.
SM tier 2 vehicles are basically all worthless. Landspeeders have too little health when looking at how many AV there is now (uber brightlances, horrors etc.), Dreads with 2000 HP cannot fulfil their meatshield role anymore. Hellfires without WA-like knockback simply arent worth it. What's left are Whirlwinds, which are perfect as they are IMHO.
Furthermore, I think Horrors are a little too hefty. The damage is insane, they're impossible to melee because of their speed plus they deep strike.
IMHO, Chaos has received too many small buffs lately which overall make them so strong.
Compare the Sorcerer to the Librarian for example. Which one is more useful?
Doombolt vs. Smite? Chains of Torment vs. Weaken Resolve?
WotE comes too late to be important.
IMHO, either Chaos or SM need a rework.
SM are supposed to have ranged superiority, stacking bonuses through their heroes and be dependent on the perfect interworking of the units.
It doesn't work like that anymore, except against Orks.
Eldar ranged cover bonuses and FoFing Seer Council with Commander armour ignore meatshields, tie up your heavy weapons and shoot you up with long-range reapers.
Chaos has superior melee, Defilers, deepstriking horrors etc.
What made SM competitive in vanilla DoW were their numerous bonuses (16x healing and WotE, both of which are rightfully nerfed). DoWpro SM does not have a unique domain anymore.
What they need is a meatshield (Dread) and useful heroes (auras, useful spells for Librarian).
Defiler needs nerfing IMHO.
Orks are still largely immune to morale due to mob bonus, which I find improvable, but not imba. Eldar seem a lot stronger in 1.51. From what I have seen, they don't seem blatanly OP. Brightlances are scary though...
Sorry for crying.
And now for something completely different (
Is it possible that some damage values versus vehicle_high are bugged? I'm specifically thinking of upgraded banners and LPs.
Greetings
#617
Are you joking? the Defiler Battle-Cannon sucks, it's allmost impossible to hit anything short of a screen-ful of orkz.Defilers get 2500 HP, a very strong autocannon and an insanely strong artillery.
Smite. It has great disruption and even deals some decent damage AFAIK. Doombolt, on the other hand, deals neglible physical damage and it's morale damage kinda sucks too since it only speeds up the demise of a squad that was about to be broken anyway.Doombolt vs. Smite?
The sac circle costs 250/100, the horrors cost 300/100 and can't reinforce. Add to this their extremly slow projectile speed(yes, it matters. alot.) and they aren't that much better then regular plasmarines. The AV capabilities(which are only really noticeable against light vehivles) come from a 80/20 upgrade that requires a 350/100 machine pit. Also, horrors can easily be tied up by jumptroops.Furthermore, I think Horrors are a little too hefty. The damage is insane, they're impossible to melee because of their speed plus they deep strike.
Thanks for your answer.
Someone on these forums made a nice analogy:Are you joking? the Defiler Battle-Cannon sucks, it's allmost impossible to hit anything short of a screen-ful of orkz.
"Four people are attacking you. Would you rather have a pistol with 3 rounds or a shotgun with 3 shells?"
It's the same with the Defiler battle-cannon. Apart from that, one Defiler may be quite harmless, but taking down 3+ with just missile marines is next to impossible.
Compare the Defiler to Whirlwinds or Looted Tanks. Disruption and morale damage are, at least in my experience, much higher.
I didn't realise Smite actually dealt any physical damage. Would somebody (mlai?) be so kind to post the stats of these two? TIASmite. It has great disruption and even deals some decent damage AFAIK. Doombolt, on the other hand, deals neglible physical damage and it's morale damage kinda sucks too since it only speeds up the demise of a squad that was about to be broken anyway.
Other than that, "great disruption" is what FS does. Smite is nowhere near.
The Circle costs 250/50 (compared to 250/100 Artifact btw).The sac circle costs 250/100, the horrors cost 300/100 and can't reinforce. Add to this their extremly slow projectile speed(yes, it matters. alot.) and they aren't that much better then regular plasmarines. The AV capabilities(which are only really noticeable against light vehivles) come from a 80/20 upgrade that requires a 350/100 machine pit. Also, horrors can easily be tied up by jumptroops.
5 Plasma Marines cost 450/125, also require circle, have less HP, take longer to train, are more vulnerable to most weapons and cannot deepstrike (at least not in T2).
Not sure about the projectile speed, though. Plasmarines can be tied up just as easily, but don't move as fast as horrors AFAIK.
Defilers have insane disruption.But their morale and physical damage is fine.The moon catapulting isnt.
Chaos gets melee upgrades,but in late game ranged>>>>melee.Demons are scary ATM,and perma braking is a little OP.
Eldar are being hotfixed at the moment.SS will scale in cost.Otherwise they are fine.Lances cost a lot and thats why they were buffed.
Orks are fine,apart from the 4 man Stormies NLs.
SM...are u kidding me.SM rule.They arent dread spamm anymore or plazma/wote combo.
Use apoths+3x hero tag team with CORE+inspiring aura+xenophobia[whatever the chappy skill is called] and u will see how strong they really are.Dont forget rally.
Dreads are dirt cheap.120/240 if im not mistaken.
The only thing maybe is that weaken resolbe should do some morale dmg[200-250]
http://www.minivault.com/images/TemplarPowerSword.jpgQuote:
The Commisar does not carry a power weapon
Got a source for that?
This is a imperial power sword. A sign for it (appart from the color) is the metal cable(?) ending in a small ball, situated on the blade.
I might be wrong but the Commi in WA has an ordinary CC weapon and las pistol wich is standard equipment for a Commi according to the Imperial Codex.
before i forget...doesn this pic rock?!
Is there a changelog or a readme of what exactly DoWPro does? I haven't played the game for a few months and getting back into it, but for the life of me I cant seem to find anything that actually says what this mod adds / changes.
Thanks
Upgradeable storm bolter is very doable. Have you talked to Compiler about using his Rhino model?
@darkjestir there were made a lot of changes but in general it more like dow classic with the features of WA.
more infos you find on our board. the link you can find in my signature.
f4lx
#624
Lord Korn, none of the DoW powerwaepons have those cables AFAIK, but I see your point in that it could be a regular CCW as per TT.
1. I myself never touched the Defiler battlecannon lua.
2. Dreadnaughts will have +200 HP re-buff in 1.52 hotfix. The nerf was accidental.
3. SM remains the most easy to use army. I'm not well versed enough with their highest potential. I have successfully fought to have them keep 2 Land Raiders.
4. Aside from BT, the demons' morale-breaking auras have been severely nerfed by yours truly. Also, flamers are demon counters, and AoE weapons do not suffer from accuracy reductions of morale break. Use flamers against demons (not BT). Try Terminator heavy flamers and ignore your Termies being broken. Heavy flamers >>> flamers. And actually buy the flamer upgrade, when your enemy is Chaos.
5. Eldar will get tweaks.
6. A comprehensive manual of DOWpro is being worked on. Not by me. No way.
Hello, guys, wonderful job with this mod. It really improves the original game in every way. I haven't played it for so long, and now, it just feels so much more balanced. Thanks!
I checked the Eldars and like a lot what has been done. Yet, since they are tweaked further now, I have suggestions, or questions.
1. Banshees : they seem good with the later upgrades, but in early games, I find them quite inferior to the other CC units. They "feel" weaker but also, even with Fof they cannot catch up with the enemy units, who can just withdraw and blast again when the Banshees stop the chase. Did I miss something with them?
2. I couldn't find any relocation options in the webways. Is it intended? If so, I don't mind, but could it be possible to make the secondary support portal(s) able to produce all the vehicules previously researched in the first one?
3. I like the fact that you have to build several Soul Shrines to upgrade your squads cap. But the third Soul Shrine is not so useful for building upgrades (the first two are enough for that), only for the squad cap. Maybe it could give something more, not a tremendous advantage, but a little something. Actually, maybe it already does, but I am not aware of it so, just tell me.
4. I read some very good suggestions about improving the Avatar (immolation stuff, no cap limitation, quicker but less powerful and no boost to production, this kind of things). Any chance that they can be included in the mod?
@PIP:
-multiple SS increases pop,but also buffss the warlock bonus to conceal and attack buffs.
-some upgrades need multiple SSs as a pre-requisite
@Mlai:
-no mlai,Orks are te easiest race to play.I will explain why in the next part of the post.
Ok here are some little things i found to be sucky for gameplay and/or oppose any logic:
Chaos:
-Chaos sorceror:His melee dmg is to high.He is a caster,yet he has the melee of a Beg mek.He is also a LP2 killer.Nerf his melee,cause he gets 2xTP,3 very good spells and costs very little cash
-Defiler arty-when the arty hiys units fly all over the place.The disruption is to good for a vehicle that isnt a dedicated artilery.
- Zerkers-their final upgrade comes to late,zerkers are pretty much useless at tier3.Make the Upgrade after machine pit.
SM:
-librarian-weaken resolve is useless.Make it actually do some morale dmg.maybe 150-200.
Eldar:
-we have found and told u the slight imbas and bugs.Still searching if there are new ones.Cant find them yet though
Orks:
-they are the most easiest race to play in DOWpro.By far the easiest.They rush hard,they cant be rushed.They an tech without getting hurt or fearing of getting killed.Their micro requirements are a no-brainer.They have to many options early on.
-their tech is vulnerable at tier3,but by then u are overrun so...
So i propose a small fix,that would eliminate all of this:
-make the 1st WB cost 175 and make the rest scale down in cost by 5 reg.
This would fix the early game rushing capabilities and the late game vulnerable tech.It would take away the 2-3 sluggas in an early rush,and in the late game losing banners wont be so costly as after 5 banners all other would cost less then 150.
-the 4 man Stormboy nob leader needs to go.
all races:
-the +2 HQ power is suxxor.It benefits only Orks as they can get telyporta without making the generator.
+2 power means nothing to other races.
Cheers
@Ra2iel:
Chaos:
-Chaos sorceror:His melee dmg is to high.He is a caster,yet he has the melee of a Beg mek.He is also a LP2 killer.Nerf his melee,cause he gets 2xTP,3 very good spells and costs very little cash
--> However, chaos only has 2 hero units....they have to be good since every other race gets more.
-Defiler arty-when the arty hiys units fly all over the place.The disruption is to good for a vehicle that isnt a dedicated artilery.
---> defilers are good at arty since they're more pop. WW's are 1 pop and are better arty. 3 ww's >> defiler arty.
SM:
-librarian-weaken resolve is useless.Make it actually do some morale dmg.maybe 150-200.
---> About 120 max would be nice - however, it will affect larger squads MORE than smaller since each unit receives a morale hit. Hence big squads take bigger hits thus it shouldn't be too great.
Eldar:
-we have found and told u the slight imbas and bugs.Still searching if there are new ones.Cant find them yet though
---> apparently the guardian conceal stacking is too big atm. Comments?
Orks:
-the 4 man Stormboy nob leader needs to go.
---> can u further explain this plz
all races:
-the +2 HQ power is suxxor.It benefits only Orks as they can get telyporta without making the generator.
+2 power means nothing to other races.
---> so would the answer to be to increase the telyporta research power cost?
@Korbah:
1]sorceror
he is to strong or to cheap.I cant decide what it is.
I wasnt even thinking about the Sorc,until a game with Ultra_simon.It was a fun game but i was losing[due to a cultist rush fun] but i managed to almost kill him 2 times with CL+CS +2xdefiler+tac squads and he outsquaded me and outnumbered me.
2]Defiler only needs to weaker knockdown.ATM units fly all over the place.
3]weaken resolve -i agree
4]Guardian stacking isnt to strong.It comes to early.
Thats why i suggested that SS scale up in cost.
By the time u would be able to get ful lteched guards,enemy would already have an arty piece.Arty and spells and all AOE attacks murder guardians.They only get reduced dmg taken form direct attacks[bolters/HB/plazma].U can no longer counter teched guardians with massed tacs.
Again,it just comes to early,hence the SS scaling.
It is being done for the hotfix.
5]On the SB ,let me explain.4 man SB nls were meant to counter eldar WS.But WS got a nerf[move shooting and TP freeze] so it isnt necesary anymore.Further more against SM and Chaos [and eldar] u can easily outsquad your opponent and tie up all his squads with just 4 SBs with NLs.
6]think about what i proposed about ORK WB scaling.
Ork units arent to strong by themselves.But the atmosphere when they come into play is what makes them slightly imba.
1st WB costing more,and all others scaling down in cost would fix this
the whole WB issue will be redone anyway once we redo the pop systems.
The pop system is being changed for several reasons:
- to increase the gameplay depth of gaining cap
- to modify the pacing and particularly the access to T2.5 vehicles (thus limiting spam and higher pop units aka preds)
- to encourge the use of waaaagh 2 and 3's and to make players think more deeply into how they use and get pop
- to make sm/csm pop vulnerable and have a gameplay impact
Essentially it comes down to making T2 feel more different to T3 whilst also staggering T3 more (atm T3 isn't particularly defined). T2/3 transition is rather rushed and doesn't have the same gameplay clarity and definition of DoWpro's earlier tiers. Furthermore vehicles are spammed too quickly simply because pop is so available - this results in vehicles being thrown away rather than used intelligently and carefully.
Furthermore, inf pop will be made slightly harder to get so that mass wars don't occur as readily. They'll still occur but will be more of a T3 feature.
It comes down to gameplay: how can we make the current pop system (which is rather uninteresting and is more of a means to an end rather than an actual game mechanic) create better gameplay? The answer will be in the next full release
@Korbah
could u coment on the way youre planing to change pop of the races?
Will eldar also be included?
Im interested in Orks in perticular.
Eldar already have their new system mainly in place. Webways will get a power cost and warlocks will only add +1. SS scaling will be tweaked to match the pacing of other races.
Orks:
- WB1's are going to remain the same price but only add inf pop. Furthermore, they're going to add less inf pop.
- WB2's are going to add veh and inf pop/waaagh
- WB3's will add additional veh and inf pop and will be slightly more economical than going for 2xwb2's to encourage the extra "all in one basket" approach.
SM/CSM:
- their researches will be adapted into stone like addons for lp's (and inf and a veh per lp)
- the stones will add pop and add a small HP boost to the lp to make it more survivable
Don't get me wrong. I very much appreciate your neutrality regarding races (WS fire on the move for example), but +200HP does not fix the problem IMHO.2. Dreadnaughts will have +200 HP re-buff in 1.52 hotfix. The nerf was accidental.
3. SM remains the most easy to use army. I'm not well versed enough with their highest potential. I have successfully fought to have them keep 2 Land Raiders.
In vanilla DoW, Dreads had like 4800(!)HP and, apart from being spammy, were not overpowered as far as I remember.
In DoWpro, Dreads (together with three heroes) are supposed to make up a meatshield, but 2000 (or 2200 for that matter) HP aren't leading anywhere, especially not with so much AV power around as there is in DoWpro.
Defilers are much more worth it than Dreads because they aren't instantly a prime target when encountered. They stand in the back and fire their moon-catapult arty, while Dreads actually have to get close to do any damage/disruption.
I'd say, up their price and build time and buff their HP to actual meatshield levels to make them a viable choice once again.
ATM, of all SM vehicles only Whirlwinds are any good in T2.
Have been nerfed in 1.51 or will be nerfed in 1.52?Aside from BT, the demons' morale-breaking auras have been severely nerfed by yours truly.
BT is fine IMHO.
#634
Most interesting comments on the pop-revision. I'd just like to say that if vehicles will be much more scarce(which is good, IMHO) so should anti-tank weapons.
NO! Invincible tech must DIE!but could it be possible to make the secondary support portal(s) able to produce all the vehicules previously researched in the first one?
Also, could anyone tell me the exact morale damage dealt by Doombolt?
its about 300 i think it does do high moral dmg IMO.
Hi,
I have a really basic question about DOWPRO and I did not find the answer in the manuel or in this thread.
Does the installation of DOWPRO allows to play to vanilla DOW/WA after?
If not, is it possible to install two DOW/WA on computer?
Yes and Yes.
Basically u jsut use the mod manager to select which version of dow u want to play (1.4/wa/dowpro). Mod manager is on the main dow lobby screen.
You can also do multiple dow installations - however, it's a little fiddly.
Aside from having fewer members without 3 SS, Banshees are buffed from their vanilla versions. They have the same normal/FoF/charge speeds as vanilla, they move FASTER than vanilla when engaged in CC, and they have better cover bonus than vanilla when engaged in CC. With JZ research, they become substantially better than vanilla. However, a lot of the Banshees' attributes depend on the survival of their Exarch, which is the case with all Eldar troops: their bonuses depend heavily on the survival of their squad leaders.
No infantry can run away from FoF + charge Banshees. Without talking about raw power/durability, Banshees are the best CC troops in the game. Nothing moves faster, nothing charges faster, nothing attacks faster, nothing has better cc cover.
Relocation is automatically enabled at tier 2.
Multiple SS buffs Warlock auras and also BL dps. Korbah told me to buff BL plats and vehicle BLs by 15%. I gave straight buffs to the vehicle BLs, but I gave modifiers to SS so that the 2nd and 3rd SS buffs BL plat dps until it is buffed by 15% at 3 SS.
Shuriken plats don't get SS scaling buffs. Korbah, I can either raise its price to BL cost, or I can first nerf its dps by 15%, then do the same thing I did for BL, so that it's at current dps only if you have 3 SS. Which do you want?
Warlocks already give only +1 pop. Exarch give +0.
BM Tellyporta: The answer would be to make it cost more power and then give it back its vanilla range. >:-D
So it's established that Conceal doesn't cover against AoE attacks? When I was modding, I was assuming that "type 2" refers to AoE/ability attacks. Glad to know I guessed correctly. Right now, Conceal still does the 25% reduction for ranged damage type 1 (direct fire) and type 2 (AoE), like vanilla. And then the SS buffs apply to only type 1, to 39%.
I'm considering remodeling all Conceal auras (not Fortune or AtE) so that it does not cover AoE at all. Korbah thoughts?
I have no opinion on the SB situation, because I don't use them ever since I can't use FJ on them (for all you SB nerf enthusiasts, that's already a huge SB nerf).
As for pop revamp... I want to work on IG rather than pop revamp. I think IG should be priority #1, with pop revamp later. Seriously. Cuz nobody really minds whether or not you do the pop revamp except yourself. At least, not compared to how much they feverishly want IG. You have to consider the shelf life of the game. Tons of ppl are saying they are waiting for IG before they try DOWpro. And we're slowly losing players as they go on to other games. For example I haven't seen Brenil for a good while now.
A revamp and subsequent balancing will take another month at least. I'm not capable of working on that + IG at the same time. I can only work on IG when there are no more tweaks/reworks to be done for the 4 races. Best if you worry about pop revamps, campaigns, and race integrations... much later on. Those are things that don't matter if you never get to them (due to you stopping playing DOW/WA, etc).
Shees are fine.Teching them is a biatch!!
Guardians are fine.Teching them should be slowed.[hence the SS scaling]
Eldar are boned when the enemy uses flamers or arty.Thats your AOE there.No need to further nurf.
Orks are very potent.They can rush fast w/o fearing a counter rush.SCALE THE DAMN BANNERS!!!!! until u rework the pop system
I have a realy problem with SBs.Damn it its just to good witout any apperent reason.WS were nerfed,no reason to keep SBs at 4man NLs
Oh@ mlai:
dont forget to add a morale dmg effect to the WEAKEN RESOLVE.[korbah told me to speak with u about it.100-12 max dmg morale]
Something totally different. IMO too many things rely on relics. The MANs for example already need fort and 81 waaagh AND relic. They are not worth it since they are CC and so extremely slow moving (wich is the worst that can happen for a CC unit after low hp). Uber units and stuff like Assault cannons or claws with relics are fine but further units just get a too rare use IMO.
@lordkorn
U are kidding right.Are u?I hope u are... :argh:
The things that need relic are uber:
Orks:
-MANz
-power klawz
-squiggy
Eldar:
-witchblades
-avatar
SM:
-ATs
-LRs
Chaos:
-Oblits
-BT
so there arent many units or upgrades that need a relic.
Besides MANz are uber.Attach a Maddoc to them and use FJ damn it!!
I am not kidding. Even with FJ it needs no Select to dance them. But I dont want to argue about that cuz MANs are fine. The stuff that requires a relic is well balanced with costs and cap anyway according to their uberness. Furthermore, IMO the list is too long to say "there arnt many units or upgrades that need a relic". Anyway its just an opinion. The truth is that I am in love with MANs (they are so freakin orky!!11!!1) but I cant use them or I dont need them because the games is won or lost before I get them.
Yeah that's fine mlai about IG vs pop changes - sadly however, I'm not going to be able to do much coding till my comp is working >.<
However, True and I both agree that shruiken and BL plats need an in-melee modifier that decreases their ranged accuracy....atm CC doesn't affect themn in any meaninful way.
@ Korbah:
1. You didn't answer my questions. After all the effort I took to bold and red your name, you didn't answer them.
2. Attached plats cannot shoot when their squads are in CC, unless it's one of those rare WA glitches where the attacked squad continues to stand there and shoot even when Orkz are chopping at them, at which point I've clearly checked that they're doing zero damage.
In my experience, whenever a squad is engaged in CC, an attached plat starts bobbing about like it's lost, and doesn't shoot.
Unless True has noticed something different, in which case show me the replay.
If you mean that an isolated plat should stop shooting when being hacked at, then I disagree. Plat hps are so low, they literally die within seconds of being mobbed by CC troops. They don't have the time to kill even 1 slugga.
New Gen Scale concept... ?
Please have a look here :
Link to DoWPro forum - Gen Scale thread...
And give feedback !
Ciao,
@ Korbah:
1. What do you think about nerfing Shurks by 15%, then make it scale up 15% with 3 SS, like what I've done with BL (buffed it by scaling 15%)?
2. Do you want Conceal to stay as current, as just scale SS by 25 req/ 15 pow... Or do you want me to make Conceal only cover type 1 damage (direct fire), and be 0% against type 2 damage (AoE/abilities)?
3. Do you want to keep HQ +2 pow and gen scale +20? Or do you want to go back to HQ +0 pow and gen scale +15?
4. I buffed LP3 resource rate by 25% (you suggested 50% but that's too much...). Ppl complaining LP3 is too good... leave it or change it back? Hey maybe they'll use it now.
5. You still set on your SM heroes no-attach stance? You know that we could balance them so they aren't imba when attached, if we wanted to...
Stupid question, but is DowPro compatible with Skirmish AI? Also, what version does my WA need to be to use DowPro? :hwpilot:
1. DOWpro has built-in customized Skirmish AI, courtesy of Larkin VB.
2. DOWpro is compatible with latest version of WA (the 1.41).
Just have an idea for eldar in their current state
guard focusing is quite powerful. How about to encourage diversifying into a couple of aspect warriors (sometimes the eldar player doesn't need aspect warriors to play competetively) we make the armour and weapons upgrades (at SS) require either
A) a minimum number of aspect stones built (e.g. 1 aspect stone means you can get the armour upgrade, 2 aspect stones allows the weapons upgrade) or
B) Banshee stone allows armour upgrade and Reaper stone allows weapons upgrade
yay or nay?
It just very easy to go stright super guardian builds - this would make it that just a little more expensive and allow for diversification.
Guardian builds are fine except it doesn't require a lot of thought and it can't go too wrong coz guardians are pretty goo all round.
Also another thought on guardians. They reinforce very fast. This allows Eldar to apply pressure constantly even if they loose a few troops. If we make guardians reinforce slower, then the eldar player has to choose his attacks a little more precisely.
Just some thoughts
Mlai, thanks for your answers. I like the way the Eldars are very much now.
@DysthymiC : I don't think guardians are so good to make some changes in the available upgrades of the SS.
An army with only guardians is quite vulnerable to CC units and cannot harm any buildings, so after a short time, you have to move to something else.
Yet I understand your point, and if I had to choose between what you suggest, it would be changing the speed at which they reinforce a little longer, but no change in the upgrade system.
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