Original Weberverse-inspired mod

[Norsehound]

Way too much alien stuff. I find it ridiculous that a whole alien armada would attack earth out of the blue. Lets face it, there are no aliens in and around our solar systems. So, an alien attack scenario involving earth sounds too unrealistic. Besides, it has been covered so often, it's not even interesting anymore.

That's exactly the reason why I dislike that utopian philosophy. An alien threat will magically unite all of mankind --yeah right. The world was at stake several times throughout history and we were still fighting each other. When Stalin threatened to bomb you into stoneage, did you suddenly start loving the 1st world? --I don't think so.

Norsehound lost the little credibility he had, with his last post.

[Retroboy]

Not so much bashing other people's ideas as remarking on the credibility of other members', uni.

-- Retro

[Unicron]

Don't quote me out of context.

The first two quotes are obviously directed at the idea of aliens invading Sol, in general. The third is directed at you, in relation to your knowledge about history and warfare. And all of them hardly qualify as bashing. It's not my fault if you cannot interpret them correctly. BitchX didn't seem to have a problem with that --funny how you didn't pointed that one out.

It seems that you have a problem with people rejecting your ideas. This is can be witnessed on the Angels Fall First forums where your concepts didn't catch much interest.

Not so much bashing other people's ideas as remarking on the credibility of other members', uni.

-- Retro

With regards to science fiction (which wasn't the case here), I agree. But not with historic battles (e.g. WW1, Gulf Crisis etc).

[Norsehound]

My annoyance in Angels Fall first stems from the fact that my ideas were ignored, not that they 'didn't catch much interest. I had covered those ships already in concept art form and they were simply forgotten. It was as if I did not exist, wouldn't you hate that?

A lot of my frustrations come from my treatment in the point-defense mod. If I wasn't against a wall already by making my own definition of the Taiidan and the rest of the homeworld universe, Tel apparently had other ideas about where he was going with his fiction and told the others to ignore me, not correct my thinking.

To have someone say my 'credibility is out the window' is among one of the insults the PDS effectively shouted. my ideas ARE credible, and FAR MORE imaginative than a lot of mod concepts out there!

I am more than willing to write, illustrate, and flesh out all of the race's feels, ships, societies, everything from my mod concept. What other creative mind can offer to do this? The only thing stopping me from starting my own mod and blowing everyone away with the depth of that mod's universe is the fact that I can't code, can't model, and have little understanding of modifying homeworld in general.

And even if my mod idea(s) is/are not selected I'm willing to try to detail starships from other ideas, but it would not be as creative or interesting as having a totally unknown race to conceive.

And before you ask, the reason I'm not concepting much for AFF is because the ships look out of place next to the concepts by Orb and Daemoria. The Loki and Fenrir are plain examples of this, and to some degree the pride also. Like in PDS, my creativity is limited to the range of the rules laid out by the world.

So here, once again, in the brainstorming area i'm trying to put some 'rules' into the world of the mod to allow manuvering room. If we add aliens (even as ancient ruins or long-dead civilizations) then there's room for the exotic and the bizzare to happen. Space, even today, is vastly unexplored. Nobody's been there. I'd like a mod to reflect that. If we have say, the fourth world war in space, there isn't much room for creativity since it would be in the 'plasuable realm' (Unless you wanted to create a D-weapon )

So please, don't call my ideas uncredible or unworkable. I show a ton of creativity for my concepts, and would be more than happy to elaborate on the kinds of ships and features I'd like to see in a mod. I know I'm no tactician with a 'great, deep understanding of warfare', but I know I play games for fun, not some greater tactical understanding (another reason why I stopped playing PDS- too anyalitical to be fun anymore.)

Sorry for the long winded post... just got carried away.

[Unicron]

This is a non-issue really. No one questioned your credibility with regards to your ideas. The reason for the "credibility post" was because you stated wrong facts about WW1 and the Gulf Crisis, that's all. Granted, "credibility" was probably the wrong word to use, as it spawned a lot of confusion.

As for AFF; Alex is very picky when it comes to AFF stuff. AFAIK, alot of concepts from Orb and Daem have been rejected too, and all of the old models and concepts (including most, if not all of yours as well) have been replaced with Daem's and Orb's new drawings. As for PDS; well, Tel' is a moron, 'nuff said.

In conclusion: if you have your own concept of a sci-fi universe; start your own mod. If Alex can pull off AFF with basically nothing but text, should be able too. Especially if you can draw some concept art. Draw some concepts and ask for modelers on some of the better known artist boards. Coding for HW2 is easy, you should be able to get the hang of it within hours.

[Norsehound]

We'll see if Locutus likes my ideas or not. If they're not accepted, then I'm pulling my ideas out of here for IP concerns. As much as I hate harsh critisism, I hate art and idea theives even more.

The reason for the "credibility post" was because you stated wrong facts about WW1 and the Gulf Crisis, that's all. Granted, "credibility" was probably the wrong word to use, as it spawned a lot of confusion.

Indeed, as it sounded as if you were out to destroy my concept.

[Mr. Pete]

Norse is the one of the best concept artists whose work I've had the pleasure of reading.
To be fair, everyones gonna argue over the Mod simply because it doesnt have a clearly defined agenda. Yeah I know you guys are trying to be diplomatic about it but that won't work. Simply because everyone likes their idea and no one elses. This is why parliament breaks things down into: "Hey guys, pensions for widows? Good idea?" and the like. These are all good ideas although everyone thinks they have their bad parts, and most of them do have one or two chinks in the ole armour

Incidentally retro, I'd happily add plasma lances to race one and change the convoy system to mining bases or something similar. Think oil rigs in RA2

but really... you can sit here an argue about it all day if you like It aint getting nothing done. Fun as it is

Suggestion: Someone competent and willing to listen to other peoples ideas and not go dictator is VOTED in and they take control. A seperate forum is setup (proboards or whatever) and we/you/aliens invading sol/whoever get down to getting an idea to work to.

[DatonKallandor]

A last remark regarding Norses' situtation if its allowed:

As for your PDS and AFF dilemma - the problem seems to be, that you are unable to make compromises. And in both PDS and AFF the backstory is already fleshed out, and (kinda) set in stone. Joining an Project and demanding it to be changed according to your wishes is kinda un-polite.

Now back to this mod-without-name. I second Pete, with the exception of the 2nd boards.


Daton

[Retroboy]

Pete, if you'll review the suggested process I proposed earlier, you'll see it matches your idea. Locutus is this mod's "coordinator" whereas I'm just an interested bystander, and so I wasn't suggesting timing or dictating an approach. That being said, now probably is a good time for the next phase.

How we did it the last time is all stakeholders that were interested in participating selected their #1, #2 and #3 choice, with the caveat that it couldn't be their own. #1 choices got 3 points, #2 got 2 and #3 got one point each. Mod participants that indicate they're "doing work" got double points, whereas interested bystanders like myself that would probably play the mod get normal votes. The reason why non-participants got to vote was that having a say helped retain their interest.

That process identified a prime contender or contenders, and then the ideas that people liked out of the other mod suggestions were worked into the process as long as the authors were willing. Whoever didn't like the result could either walk, or figure some way to mesh their own ideas into the accepted game model.

One thing however to realize was that the previous process had some 20 stakeholders, not just a few like we have here, and so you could afford to have a few disinterested people leave the mod. They are, after all, a huge amount of work.

Norse, in all fairness, your SF-universe-modelling skills may be exemplary, but unless the game is coming with a campaign, or at least some sort of story-telling skirmish mode, the gameplay itself, including all its non-story elements, is what people will really be looking for, and that's where the focus needs to be in the short term. Please don't think I'm criticizing your stuff (I haven't read sufficient quantity of it to deserve to have an opinion), but it's important that the fluff work within the capabilities of the engine. It's much easier to take a basic outline, make a game of it using a predetermined engine, and then flesh out the universe to explain the rationale of the game, than it is to change the order. We all have our own visions, and I've personally written a fair amount of well-received fanfic, but I didn't have to have my own universe to do it in, and my work was appreciated because I molded it to fit the predetermined canon. I'm hoping that even if your selection isn't the winner, that you'll still be willing to lend your talents to whatever universe results under the same understanding.

ALL PARTICIPANTS - If this approach is acceptable, how does two days sound to make last-touch edits to your proposal descriptions in this thread, and then a vote? Last changes accepted January 5th at 12:01AM GMT, and then voting begins?

-- Retro

[DatonKallandor]

I vote Aye to the specified deadline.


Daton

[Mr. Pete]

Retro & Locutus (that does look right) May i suggest that for the sake of not blowing this thread to smithereens making a temporary thread where each contributor can post their suggestion in your format for reading? Then vote by PM to Loc or yourself?

[Locutus]

Okay, glad we got that icky mix-up cleared up.

Hmm. I'll go create a voting thread, with a deadline of January 5. After the deadline expires, I'll lock the thread and voting can commence. Voting will be open to anyone interested in this mod, and can be done simply by sending me a PM with your first, second and third choice as suggested by Retro. Don't worry about clogging up my inbox (312/500 slots remain), everyone who wants to can vote. I'll also post my proposal for a merger.

[Norsehound]

I have posted my revised proposal in the vote thread, and included some category additions that might help emphasise more elements about the races and overal mod suggestion.

As for the PDS decable: memory tells me that nobody challenged my changes/additions to the storylines for the PDS backstory. I disagreed with and wrote against the 'roman taiidani' of course, which they probbably reinstated now that I was gone, and tel did not give me a 'cease and decist' notice for when I was wrtiting, then. He then let me create ship profiles for nonexistant vessels, which I then concepted (ON REQUEST), and people butchered those concept art peices (So why did I do them then?).

It was only after a harsh breakup with my ex and my return did things get dicy. Ah well, PDS is happy, I'm happy, problem solved.

[Mr. Pete]

Concepts being butchered is a part of working as a concept artist methinks. Speaking from experience of course.

*Edits Loc's post in a sneaky and humourus yet useful way...*

At least I spelt out my suspicions at my spelling (considering it was 1:33(7) am...

Also time to revise my thingummy. Widget. Mod suggestion thats it & post.

[Mefusta]

I'm thinking of posting my idea in the voting thread - as long as this isn't a private affair - but I have a few questions first;
- Is it possible/permitted to have two seperate campaigns, or will it be too much work?
- If not, is it possible/permitted to have a branching mission structure?
- How many different races/factions is ideal?
- Is it possible/permitted to use the afermentioned point-based system (ie. destruction of enemies leads to points i'd assume) to compliment the basic RU system?

[DatonKallandor]

I am not sure how extensive the scripting for a gain-points-for-killing-enemy is. But to have it compliment normal mining - sure its possible.

Just incase its not known to everyone yet: It is possible to have capturable bases give RUs in fixed intervals to the owner.



Daton

[Mr. Pete]

Make ships spawn collectable salvage on death = money for kills.

[Brotherswing]

I have no modding skills at all, except maybe for playtesting, but I've been a musician for the past eighteen years. I would be happy to provide samples of music and sound effects for consideration.

[Retroboy]

Gollies, BroSwing. You could be a popular guy around here with that particular talent.

Suggestion: put together a 60-second sample of some music to accompany a large fleet battle, and post it. I'm sure if it's good that someone will snap an extended version up if you're willing.

-- Retro

[Brotherswing]

Rock, classical, techno, pick a style. Anything but country. (shudders)

[Locutus]

Classical sounds good

<3 Jazz too, but not sure it would be good for this kind of project.

How about one each of classical and rock?

[Iamme]

Get something with a good slow bass beat, then work it forward

[Magus]

Classical is good, techno can be good, but I think you'll be most adored if you can do something in the vein of existing Homeworld music.

[Norsehound]

What can you do?

Try something weird. Like Brian Eno or Harold Budd weird. Game music doesn't come weird these days... just 'action'. Be different.

[dacis2]

Do it like Total Annihilation. That was great.

[Norsehound]

For those curious about my antagonist alien vessels, I'm uploading more of them to my DA account. There's only one so far, but it's a start.

COncept here, DA page

[Retroboy]

Flangey. I'm assuming it flies right-to-left?

What's the purpose of its spread-out architecture, other than visual appeal?

-- Retro

[Brotherswing]

I'll get some clips to you to start out with, a little veriety. Glad we're in the early stages of this mod, as I'll be offline for nine weeks starting next week for military duty. I'll be back in mid March.

[Norsehound]

The Left side of the ship is the front.

The falanges at the back are it's propultion system. Since the Alus rely on technology that's been developed over the span of a millenia-long war, their ether drive systems need those large fins for propultion purposes.

The two odd blisters that look kinda out of place on the hull are the substystems cyths. They are the only customizeable items of the entire ship and are easily targetable. Most large Alus ships have two points to add the cyths, but an Eternal's starship(not concepted yet) might carry as many as eight.

Got another one up:
Alus Cruiser 2

Eventually I'll see if I can complete a carrier or something for posting, as well as that patrol ship the Alus start out with in my deployment concept. I think this'll be my last post about my proposal, since I have no idea if it'll be selected or not.

Unless anyone wants me to keep going?

[Locutus]

LET THE VOTING COMMENCE!

[shameless plug] Vote for me! [/shameless plug]

[dacis2]

when voting end?

[Locutus]

At some point when I have more than a whopping four people voting.

Come on people, is it really that hard to send me a vote via PM?

[Retroboy]

Maybe you could start a new thread rather than driving voting through PM, Locutus. I see no reason why people can't vote in public, and it might drive some discussion to improve the alternative that comes out the arse end of this process.

-- Retro, one of the not-yet-voting naughty folks.

[Locutus]

I suppose I could, but am a bit reluctant to start a third thread.

And it isn't very hard to vote, especially when all you need to do is click on this link:

http://forums.relicnews.com/private....m&userid=45169

[Norsehound]

Hey! I voted! Probably the first to vote! I did my part!

[Norsehound]

*bumped for attention*

I pmed locutus to find out when the voting ends... but no reply. Where's Loc, and when do we get a decision?

[DatonKallandor]

I suppose we get a decision once more than a handful people vote.


Daton

[Norsehound]

Ok, it's been more than a week and I have not seen hyde nor hair of Locutus. If this keeps up I'm withdrawing my submission because of concern over my own IP. I hate art theives.

Loc, where are you? Is this thing dead before departure?

[Retroboy]

Just voted myself, actually. I'd imagine the big hold-up was waiting for more votes.

-- Retro

[Norsehound]

Yeah, but wouldn't there be some kind of sign of locutus? I haven't seen him active anywhere on the boards. No response to my PM either.

[Locutus]

I'm not dead, I'm just invisible (have been making most of my posts where you wouldn't notice though)

Yeah, I'm still around, and would still love to see this mod go somewhere. However, I have less than a dozen votes at the moment, even after I included links to make sending me a PM even easier.

Sorta was waiting for more people to vote, but we could go with people who have voted so far. Thoughts?

[Norsehound]

As it stands, because there's been no reaction, I'm thinking about taking my Alus and the story out of the proposal here and trying to craft my own mod. No takers so far, but if they aren't selected here or are 'changed' in some drastic way then I'm pulling my IP of them out to continue with that new mod.

Thing is, I have a wonderful idea and I'd like to have a team to direct to work on it. I lack the skills myself, and all I'll hear from this board is 'do it yourself!'

...unless my idea appeals to a broad majority...

[DatonKallandor]

Well, unless you can find a team completely convinced by your setting you wont get a mod unless you can mod yourself. Its hard but thats the reality.


Daton

[Mefusta]

True. The 'do it yourself!' mentality you've described is pretty much standard in all but a few modding communities. But then, your idea is quite intruiging from what i've seen of it, so it wouldn't surprise me if you were able to recruit a few modders, but you simply can't expect to delegate all the more advanced and harder jobs to other people just because you 'don't have the skills'.

[Locutus]

Norsehound: Of the votes I have received, you've received a goodly number of them. Haven't counted anything, but don't pull out yet.

[Norsehound]

Hmn... I thought about 'renting' some forum space from Alex in the Angels Fall First mod to attract some attention... and serve as a dump for more ideas central to my mod.

I have with me some human starship sketches, as well as ships from the Krathal part of the alliance. Fleshing out some others ships might take some time, but at least one Alus ship is sketched per day.

We'll ultimately see what becomes of this though. Are you waiting for more votes loc?

[dacis2]

Loc, did you get my PM? long time ago, I know, but did you get it?

[Norsehound]

Fah~!

Courtesy of Angels Fall First, my idea now has some webspace to discuss for anyone interested.

That isn't to say I've pulled it out of the running yet. Just somewhere for the interested to go if they are:

http://dendezyn.net/afforum/index.ph...da7756979ca9d0

[Locutus]

Okay, voting is ended, PMs to people haven't yielded anything, so here are the result. I verify on my honor as a moderator of these forums that these results are valid. Good showing by all, here are the results:

1 = 3rd place vote, 2 = second place vote, 3 = first place vote

Locutus: 3 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 2 +1 + 2 +2 = 14
Norsehound: 1 + 3 +1 +1 + 3 +1 = 10
Retro: 3 +1 + 3 + 3 +3 =13
Progenitor: 2 + 3 +2 = 7
Mefusta: 2 = 2
BitchX: 1 + 3 +2 = 6

I know it has been a while, and I will admit I am disappointed with the voting, but I would love to see this mod pick up again and actually get made.

Are you with me?

[Mefusta]

Damn, so close!

GJ Loc, can't wait to see your idea become playable.