|
|
|
Looks like empire at war is coming out soon. Relic did not manage to fix the horrible imbalances of this game in a very long time and now with new RTS games like EaW and BFME II getting out soon, I really fear that the last men standing who bear with this game despite of it all will fall and finally give up on this otherwise decent game (like it was in HW2).
If you want to flame, buy a flamethrower. It's only 50 munitions.
You actually think BfME2 will be more balanced? Wow, talk about undieing hope.
As for EaW - totally different gameplay and absolutely no complexity. EaW is at the level of Dune 2000.
Daton
You forgot to mention BFME's own horrible lack of balance and EA's response to that problem by telling the fans to go fuck themselves.
And the fact that empire at war is about as fun as drinking a yardglass of camel diarrhea
Whoa there, what makes you think BfME2 will be balanced? heck, BfME has uber unit (uh, Gandalf anyone?) who could hold off an army by himself...
You are wrong. EaW, and BfME 2 is an massive unit RTS, and it gives you much more time to mike decisions, so the gamplay is very "calm". DoW is basing on a small unit cap, and many "action", from the first moment you have do fight for SP to survive. In the end either EaW, and BfME2 is based on an standard galagtic, and fantasy world, Warhammer has something different, and that makes it more origanal, an cooler.
I'd appreciate it if someone could direct me to the post/news update where EA (basically) told fans to go fuck themselves with regard to the balance issues of BfME.
thanks
I'm the guy who names his teams after classical Greek epic literature
I'm only interested in Sci-Fi RTS games (funny: any other RTS that doesn't take place in the future, I can't play)
Anyway if the EaW comes out I'll buy it, I'll play it, but I won't omit playing WA, cause they are different, and WA has 5 races and many opportunities
Go Relic, make that patch and uber all other RTS games, show what you can do
Hurray for Relic
Ya id like to see that post too.
Anyway no i dont think Relic missed there window of opportunity. And the very fact DOW made it to WCG is an accomplishment in its own right [since it is the only non blizzard rts in it].
Plis take into consideration in how much more balanced this game is. There are uber units sure but there is counters. Bt<Wb [with a dok of course]. And the WB<mass troops. However mass prisms and AT>all but relic is gonna fix them.
Second they are probably the only good company who bothers to listen to all the raving of the community. Blizzard turns a deaf ear. EA [not confirmed i would like to see that link too] said to the community to go fuck themselves.
Relic however says they are trying as best as they can and reply when it is necessary. Followed by Tranj who is plain evil but more helpful than any Blizzard poster ever was.
#10
I wouldn't worry about BfME2, what I'm more concerned about is WH:MoC.
One of the large player-groups in DoW are GW fans(people who like GW fluff in general, and not just wh40k), and I fear the WH:MoC could be competing for those players, should it be released to close to X2.
Ofcourse, it's in GWs best interest to stop this from happening, so hopefully they'll intervene.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Have any of yall out there played the demo for EaW? Personally, it made me want to be as far from the game as possible. I know people will say, "oh its just a demo". But to me it felt like the worst elements of turn based, combined with a very simplified rts. Space combat wasn't even a funny joke. They should have taken a page from Nexus for that one. I mean, when I play a EaW I want to see amazing fx. I remember when the old xwing and tie fighter games came out ( it sux getting old doesnt it?) I was like wow. But now playing the new game I feel, well, bored. Its not mentally challenging nor visually stimulating. The graphics just didnt seem refined and looked cartoonish, thats the best word i can use for it, sorry.
I have to agree with the earlier port post about scifi being important. Thats why I dont play AoE. I gave RomeTW a try and enjoyed the scale. And how in multiplayer you pick the number of points a players army can be, and then they organize their army, typically a template they previously saved. But then I stopped playing it. Bows and arrows, catapults, and knights on horseback are cool. But my space marines would waste them all, and look better doing it. With that said I dont think DoW has much to worry about from BFME2. The same people that play DoW now will play when X2 comes out.
Despite problems DoW may have, its a great game, looks better than the rest, and nothing, I repeat nothing is as cool as the 40k scifi.
....Except the new supreme commander game. I've been in need of a good total annihilation fix for awhile.
#12
*Just bought BFME. No longer wonders why it was only $20.*
What about guys that DO NOT like the whole Star Wars thing? (like me)
EaW is pretty lame. just like most star wars games its flying on the strength of its name sake and all the lucas fanbois will buy it regardless.
not that relic doesn't need to get off their behinds and patch this game.
far from it.
As an off topic note, Whirlwinds can exterminate AT in 20 secs.
Dude, the cinematic thing for empire at war is a joke. No coolness, no close up excitement/kill animations, no realism. Just mass unit spam and ugly, dated graphics. A bunch of people will play it cause its a starwars game, but they probably don't play DOW anyway.
Looks like we have a Star Wars fanboy here, complaining about balancing. Again. >_>Looks like empire at war is coming out soon. Relic did not manage to fix the horrible imbalances of this game in a very long time and now with new RTS games like EaW and BFME II getting out soon, I really fear that the last men standing who bear with this game despite of it all will fall and finally give up on this otherwise decent game (like it was in HW2).
#18
I think relic has a very loyal fanbase that feels the placement of their patches and their games are sound. For instance DoW is their best game in terms of sales to date... which means that is has sold over 500,000 copies, just of DoW mind of you. This is not counting sales of WA.
I think the only games that are a threat to those sales are Rise of Legends, but that is not out til the middle of May, and Supreme Commander, however that game was just recently pushed back into 2007.
For the most part when the second expansion hits this fall the only rts it will be going against is another relic product, Company of Heroes.
WOW, i thought DOW:WA was imbalanced with the units, but hearing all these Complaints about Empire at war and Battle for middle earth, WA is really balanced! Looks like i only depend on Relic and Blizzard for some good RTS games.
#20
Rise of Legends does look pretty sexy, I'll admit that.
#21
We only have a demo of EaW - it may or may not turn out to be imbalanced (with only two sides it has a better chance than DoW).
The problem with EaW is that, in the demo at least, it doesnt live up to its potential. The full version may be better, although the visuals arent ever going to be as impressive as DoW's.
Rise of Legends does look good. I'm pretty sure I'll try it, unless it gets negative reviews that seem especially telling. But the game most likely to pull me away from DoW is Supreme Commander, and that's not coming out for a long time.
I played the demos for EaW and ME2, and just wasn't very impressed. Lucasarts has such a hard time with the SW license, but if this fanboy could have his wish, I wish they would remake SW:Rebellion. I used to play that game until hallucinations took me. With updated graphics, gameplay, and a Homeworld-esque fleet battle system, all would perish. The first ME game was sailing on the tailcoats of the movies, the new demo seems interesting, but I'm not sure I'd buy it. WH: Mark of Chaos definitely has my interest, as does Supreme Commander, and Moe is right about Rise of Legends: It looks damn sexy.
I'm very pleased with DOW/WA. It may not have the longevity of Starcraft, but I think it is a runner up. I don't have a lot of the same complaints about balance, because I'm honestly not that good and don't play online often. However, given how much work originally went into the game, and how much works continues to go into it, AND how ferociously people complain about its shortcomings (which means you love it), I don't think any windows were missed.
I never truly liked starcraft it was anoing whaching the lame carriers cut everthing to size, or a swarm of zergs running on the battlefield. Same with warcraft 3, it became interesting when i fully understand the editors potential. But the only RTS i'm playing for more than 1-2 months in the year is Dow+WA. Thank you relic!It may not have the longevity of Starcraft
EaW was really great when i played, and im not even a starwars fan boy. Im just a westwood fanboy, and EVERY game the ex.westwood guys have made, were always great.
i donno about you guys, but im looking forward to EaW.
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Former staffer of Filefront : DoWfiles.com
Well i'm waiting for it too, wan't to see how the full version looks.EaW was really great when i played, and im not even a starwars fan boy. Im just a westwood fanboy, and EVERY game the ex.westwood guys have made, were always great.
i donno about you guys, but im looking forward to EaW.
#27
Yeah I'm looking forward to EaW - apparantly the full version is completely different to the demo, so theres still hope.
#28
I enjoyed it, I'll probably get it when it comes out. It's different from DoW, very different, so I'll play each according to my mood
#29
now THAT was an awesome game ^_^ could sit hour after hour until I hardly could feel my mousearm anymore >.<but if this fanboy could have his wish, I wish they would remake SW:Rebellion. I used to play that game until hallucinations took me.
Dunno about EaW... want to see what the multiplayer will be like before I even consider buying it. and BFME2... the first game was so very bad that I'm not even gonna look at the sequel unless someone tells me that jesus christ himself was in charge of it this time.
Non mihi,
non tibi,
sed nobis.
[/QUOTE][QUOTE]and BFME2... the first game was so very bad that I'm not even gonna look at the sequel unless someone tells me that jesus christ himself was in charge of it this time.[QUOTE]
Looks like i won't touch BFME with a 10 foot pole.
What makes you think that I'm a SW fanboy? I have no idea how good or bad EaW is, I'll try to get my own opinion once it is released. I just watch and see what's going on. And I see ppl leaving our clan's DoW section to get ready for other games like EaW that hopefully have better support (I don't say they do, personally I doubt it). AoE III was already a hit for our playerbase but it is a different setting and pace and EaW may cost us more. And if it is true in the clan it may be the same generally.Looks like we have a Star Wars fanboy here, complaining about balancing. Again. >_>
I just see that new opportunities make ppl bend over and convert to another game after quite a bit of frustration about this game's patch philosophy. Whenever a new RTS game comes out, we lose a few players who give up hope on this one getting balanced. Plain and simple. EaW looks very dangerous when it comes to losing competent players to another game (in clan, maybe also out of clan).
And BFME was more having problems with connection issues, the balance was not perfect but no worse than DoW:WA either. And they announce a patch in the next couple of weeks (it has undergone language translation already) so we at least have a timeframe.
And BTW, the AoE III announced balance changes for 1.05 make perfectly sense on paper. Nice, small, perfectly understandable changes. Mind you, it is possible that they still may not work out in game that nicely, but the WA 1.41 changelist didn't even make sense on paper, even less so in game.
Still, in the words of Eric Cartman "You're being a negative Nancy. Stop it."
Hmm, come to think of it, Relic have give an excellent job on community support, will the balance are rather sparse, at least it's not non-existant, like some (did i say some? I mean most) games...
If someone does not like relic's balance attempts, they can always use an fan made pack, or even try to balance te game themself. I don't thik EaW will have an toolset with such a power like the one in DoW.
#35
EaW is supposed to be completely moddable.
On topic, yeah, DoW/WA really needs a patch, but i'm pretty sure they're working on one. Also, most people will always use the official patch rather than a fan-made one, even though they can be better.
BFME lacked depth of gameplay, EA may have addressed that in the sequel. I'll certainly give a demo a try, I just love LOTR. EaW didn't impress me in the slightest though.
Either way, a horde of Tyranids couldn't keep me from the new DOW expansion pack! Considering how well WA sold (amazingly well) I personally think we're not talking about a window of opportunity but French doors of opportunity, and they're hanging wide open.
i like them all and if i can i will buy eaw, bfmeII and the x2 and for what i have seen in the star wars demo it doesn't seem so interesting as bfmeII and x2... and i dont think we should be talking about balance issues of other games here
#38
true... but lately the good players who left for AoE3 has come back one after another. It would appears that AoE3 sucks so badly that they will brave the shitty WA balance once again.AoE III was already a hit for our playerbase
weeee #1 and I can't beat a GOOD eldar ever... good thing those eldars playing the ladder isn't good :/
Balance is overrated. I know that that is blasphemy.. but its true.
With perfect balance there is no underdog... there is no "most played faction"..there is no "tactics ive never seen before"..
Having a so called "weaker" race.. or "overpowered unit".. allows for creative thinking, and "heroic" performances. When the overpowered race or unit is beaten by the underpowered race or unit.. it becomes a badge of honor. This kind of thing is alot more fun than perfect balance. Perfect balance is boring.. perfect balance removes some of the risk and makes it harder for a good player to shine.
It takes away that pride that a player gets when they can honestly say that they are "an Ork player".
I mean.. its not like the balance is incredibly off.. the game is still competitive no matter what faction you choose.
That being said.. I do not think that that means a developer should ignore balance issues... they should always try to address them and STRIVE to make a perfectly balanced game.. they will never achieve it of course..but trying to fix things keeps the game fun and engaging..and excites the playerbase.
But if you enjoy a game.. you shouldnt give up on it because it isnt quite as balanced as you want it to be. Just keep playing and trying to get better. If you really want to play one of the weaker factions..but havent been doing so because they arent as strong as one of the others... who cares? play them anyway! its fun.. and maybe you can figure out a way to "stick it to the man" and beat those people playing the strongest race.. fat with a sense of self superiority.
Eeehhhh, why does a game need a most played faction? Is there something wrong with all factions being played equally? Wouldn't it be great if players could play their favorite faction cause it suits their tastes and play styles instead of cause it's the underdog race or cause it's the strongest race?
And there are plenty of tactics even if a game is perfectly balanced. It's not the most perfect example, but TA's got more strategies and tactics than you could shake a stick at, and it's more or less balanced (mainly cause the two sides are so similar, but still).
And heroic performances are only in the eye of the beholder. An underdog player could beat overpowered races, but think about it. Is it really satisfying for an expert to use all his skills just to beat an average player who's capitalizing on the strongest imbalances? I don't think so. At least it's not as satisfying as beating someone of your own skill level through cunning and aptitude.
You have it backwards. Perfect balance strips down all imbalances and OP and reduces the win or lose factor down to solely player skill, and that's where the contest should be. Imbalance ensures that those who capitalize on the most overpowered strategies will always win against an opponent of equal skill. That's not fair. We play games so we can have fair contests of skills, not to torture ourselves trying to beat unskilled opponents who simply spam the most ovepowered strategies over and over.
Balance is certainly overrated when you lose half your games because you units can't remember/don't do what you told them to do =/
Shinova.. its also more fun to buy a mansion than live in an apartment.. more fun to drive a Ferarri than a Mitsubishi.. more fun to eat steak and shrimp than macaroni and hotdogs..
However..this isnt a perfect world and we cant do what we want to do all the time.
Fact: There will never be a perfectly balanced game. Why? because balance is in the eye of the beholder. It is perfectly balanced to the guy who prefers playing a race that is more powerful than others.. because he has a high opinion of his skills. It is less balanced to the guy who really wants to play a race which cannot effectively counter the attacks of a race that alot of other people are playing. It doesnt matter if that "underpowered" race can beat the **** out of one of the other less popular races.. because everyone wants to be the uber bad***.
The only way to achieve real "balance" is to make every faction a carbon copy of everyone else. Then.. yah.. you could get a "thrill" from defeating someone with your superior skills. Who cares? the game would be boring..there would be no variety.
"Is it really satisfying for an expert to use all his skills just to beat an average player who's capitalizing on the strongest imbalances?" yes..it is.. because he knows that he took a handicap.
There will always be people who just figure out the "cheesiest" way to play and attemp to steam roll over everyone using that one strat.. it is up to the better player to find ways around that strategy, or to just accept it and try to play games against people who dont abuse the system.
Imbalances give a game flavor.
The only people who should be griping about imbalances are the ones who care more about their e-peen than just having fun. I mean.. win or lose..if you enjoy the game, you are gonna have fun either way. Screams of "HAX!" and "CHEESE!" and "IMBALANCE" are trotted out by people who care more about their win/loss ratio and whether or not they can claim to be one of the top 50 players.
Dont get me wrong.. im as competitive as the next guy.. I love to lord over those that are lesser gamers than myself
1. You make a huge jump of logic from game balance to life.Shinova.. its also more fun to buy a mansion than live in an apartment.. more fun to drive a Ferarri than a Mitsubishi.. more fun to eat steak and shrimp than macaroni and hotdogs..
However..this isnt a perfect world and we cant do what we want to do all the time.
Fact: There will never be a perfectly balanced game. Why? because balance is in the eye of the beholder. It is perfectly balanced to the guy who prefers playing a race that is more powerful than others.. because he has a high opinion of his skills. It is less balanced to the guy who really wants to play a race which cannot effectively counter the attacks of a race that alot of other people are playing. It doesnt matter if that "underpowered" race can beat the **** out of one of the other less popular races.. because everyone wants to be the uber bad***.
The only way to achieve real "balance" is to make every faction a carbon copy of everyone else. Then.. yah.. you could get a "thrill" from defeating someone with your superior skills. Who cares? the game would be boring..there would be no variety.
"Is it really satisfying for an expert to use all his skills just to beat an average player who's capitalizing on the strongest imbalances?" yes..it is.. because he knows that he took a handicap.
There will always be people who just figure out the "cheesiest" way to play and attemp to steam roll over everyone using that one strat.. it is up to the better player to find ways around that strategy, or to just accept it and try to play games against people who dont abuse the system.
Imbalances give a game flavor.
The only people who should be griping about imbalances are the ones who care more about their e-peen than just having fun. I mean.. win or lose..if you enjoy the game, you are gonna have fun either way. Screams of "HAX!" and "CHEESE!" and "IMBALANCE" are trotted out by people who care more about their win/loss ratio and whether or not they can claim to be one of the top 50 players.
Dont get me wrong.. im as competitive as the next guy.. I love to lord over those that are lesser gamers than myself
2. I'm sorry, but balance in the case of DoW can be objectively determined through repeated trials of testing and the combined experiences of all the DoW players. Why do you think so many people cry AT imbalance? Because their combined experiences show such a thing exists.
Hence, your entire argument fails.
#44
The good thing about relic is while it doesnt fuck over its customer base, neither does it listen to the squirming crawling masses of worms that is the DoW fanboi banshee mob.
(look up banshee at wikipedia, it isnt just a elf with bad hair and a samurai sword...)
I think relic will make a good expansion, imba whining aside.
Wrong, you mean the vocal minority, claimnig all DoW players complain about imbalance is false, the majority of DoW players are either non-representative on the forums and other channels, or they dont masturbate their e-wang enough to whinge.combined experiences of all the DoW players. Why do you think so many people cry AT imbalance? Because their combined experiences show such a thing exists.
I play DoW, notice how im not complaining about a percieved imba.
Also in regard to your argument, players are always whining and complaining that someone who has beaten them is hacking or cheating or otherwise not playing fair, does this mean that just because they are all bitching, it makes them right?.
If thats the case its simply the patients running the asylum.
You'll find out of the thousands of DoW players, a hundred or two at best are whining, on various forums, your opinion that it is the majority complaining of a real fault is wrong.
Hence, your entire argument fails.
I played the demo of EaW, and just rececently the demo of Bfme2 and I even have a copy of AoE3. None would keep me from DoW for the simple fact that they're all so slow and dated (in terms of gameplay) compared to DoW in my opinion. I just don't like the old RTS spend hours building 'Uber Base' then end game in one large 'Fireball/Nuke' etc.
As for DoW:WA my only real complaint was that they removed the generalisation of many units (ie the weapon upgrades like Plasma, Missile, Flamer, Heavy Bolter). I liked being able to field Orks, Chaos Space Marines etc and knowing that if my enemy fields say a vehicle I can at least equip my motley crew with the tools they need. They may not be specialists for the job but at least it would give me the time to hold off my enemy while I got some decent anti-tank units. Conversly I loved the fact that Eldar WERE specialists and that if I fielded the wrong troops I could be in for some serious hardship.
Iether way I'll be buying the next expansion pack regardless of what comes out in the mean time!! :talk:
The EaW demo was the biggest gaming diappointment I've had in ages, I was expecting Rebellion crossed with Homeworld & Dawn Of War but got a super lame combo of 'rebellion lite', star trek armada & age of empires. Also not a very polished one if the demo is anything to go by.
As for DoW's imbalances, I kind of like them. I agree with the people who say it gives you a feeling of satisfaction when you out-tactic someone using a bigger, badder army. Even if it's by luck it's fun to pull off a jammy victory. Hell in Tabletop Epic I had a single stand of tactical marines who were expert gargant killers, every time they shot at a gargant (regardless of size) they managed to do damage and very often kill them which tended to swing the battle and let my titans start decimating the enemy armour. I ended up promoting them to Terminators in the end & they were still kicking gargant arse.
True EaW sucked, and the bfme 2 is really a waste off your time/data limit. I still can't believe that the file is so big but their is so little in it.
And I'll be buying X2 no matter what.
I dont think complaining about balance is the purpose of this thread. Neither i think averz game even IMBA is good when it gives you fun of playing it anyway. DoW is a game like that no matter if playing MP and countering the blance bugs, or playing SP and having fun just of slaying the AI with your favorite race, in your favorite way, in your favorite W40K universe. For me DoW is just like that
DoW will remain very competitive, especially with the announcement of a new expansion. Personally, I can't seem to get excited about a Star Wars RTS game, even though I am a Star Wars fan. Star Wars just doesn't seem to naturally fit into the RTS genre. It's like the Star Trek Armada games--RTS style just doesn't seem right for these franchises. I am looking forward to BFME2, though I think it was crazy for EA to release a 1.3 GB demo that takes all day to download.Looks like empire at war is coming out soon. Relic did not manage to fix the horrible imbalances of this game in a very long time and now with new RTS games like EaW and BFME II getting out soon, I really fear that the last men standing who bear with this game despite of it all will fall and finally give up on this otherwise decent game (like it was in HW2).
Rise of Legends looks good, but only has three races. Unless the gameplay is phenomenal, I don't see how a game with just 3 races stays all that interesting over the long term. Only Blizzard seems to get away with releasing RTS games with only 2 or 3 races, but even their latest RTS (Warcraft 3) had 4 races.
I'm definitely keeping an eye on Warhammer: Mark of Chaos and Medieval 2. :Pint:
Download my DoW maps "Redemptus Reloaded" (8p) and "Shrine of Sephreus" (2p) here.
There is slight imbalance, but nothing I would complain about. The latest 1.41 patch has at least attempted to correct what people are complaining about the most. I have been playing RTS games since Dune 2, I think DOW and WA are pretty well balanced.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
