The Future of the Automobile.

[Zepherian]

Lets face it. The road infrastructure is up, so, for the foreseable future humans will drive cars, as it isnt really economical to drive anything else. But cars are inefficiant machines which pollute and consume perhaps more than they have to. Think about it, 90% of the time they have less than 2 passangers and are doing short commutes. The autoindustry has come up with a huge variety of the things, but maybe it is time to evolve the concept somewhat.

This idea came from linking the following page on IRC:

http://seriouswheels.com/top-2006-Acabion-GTBO.htm

Acabion

After discussing it a bit I thought that a good evolution might be a trike based viehicle, and came up with this rough sketch on my PDA:

sketch

So, what do you guys think? What will be the future of the automobile? What chassis config? What propulsion system? What electronics and suspension? Personally I am thinking of a hybrid diesel and electric trike based aerodynamic config, that should manage high speed commuting with economical fuel usage and very low emissions, carbon fibre chassis and perhaps "fly by wire" throttle and steering. All in a package weighing aroung half a ton, with around 100bhp.

Remember I am going for sensible here, so use your brain folks. The "Omgwtf rocket car!" people need not post thx

[ShivaArchon]

It's a lot easier to tip over a tricycle than a four-wheeler. The look of those things is so revolutionary that I don't see much market for them in the short term (decades). And where's the trunk? If I want to drive to the grocery store and buy 50 pounds of assorted foodstuffs, I sure as hell better have a place to put all that stuff. Where does the ski rack go? People want cargo capacity and these rounded off aerodynamic designs just can't provide that.

[Zepherian]

ShivaArchon: Good points. Stability I think would be sufficient in my sketch, as it is much wider than the Acabion concept in the photo. As for the trunk, as it is a five seater it would probably fold the seating and have a dual purpose cabine, or be a 3 seater with a cargo hold. Depends I suppose, but it IS big enough to have decent storage, and it could still have rack mounted storage on its fuselage, why not? Needless to say though, it will never be, or maybe even replace, a station wagon.

But it would do many more mpg...

[Ammon Ra]

tricycle = unstable. unsafe, people won't buy unless much cheaper that a 4-wheeled vehicle.
solar= not efficient enough, but good for powering small personal led's.
There's a difference between city cars and non-city cars. the industry will specialize itself into city cars, vans, and others, as it is now. Saying that all cars will look like glorafied motorcylces is a bit daft.

I say the the future fuel will be Air. compressed air. Running a compression engine. Linky wikipedia link. It's source of fuel is air, slap some solar panels on the top and your energy consumption from mains power goes down even more.

It also runs on any burnable fuel, so you can use diesel, olive oil, or gasoline to run it as a gradual distancing from fossil fuels.

I'm also a fan of the General motors' drive-by-wire concept cars, especially how the engine is packed into a scakeboard base and the outside of the car can be changed to suit styles very quickly. I especially live the drive by wire idea in general, removing all the heavy mechanical parts and replacing them with electronic drive, makaing the vehicle lighter and thus more fuel-efficient. Compine that with the 'air car' and that's what i'd like to see car design heading to.

[Random Person]

That looks like one of my old Hotwheels cars.

[omega the end]

We will all have jet-packs and fly to work. But the pack-ways will have nets so the idiots that forgot to plug in their packs the night before don't die when they fall.

And the military will get to have the higher lanes and anyone who enters one is shot on sight with EMP guns and they have their jet-packs taken away and are givin a bottle of water for the long walk home.

[Zepherian]

...right.

[omega the end]

Its just as possible as your cargoless car

[Ammon Ra]

[refering to omega] Sounds like a rocket car to me. and no it's not just as possible. yours requires a while set of research into EMP weaponry, building and maintenance of netting, development of "the rocket pack" and scaling production of them enough to supply large parts of the world, and assumes that military have are more important than civvies. whereas zeph's concept only require a skunk works factory, several hundred thousand dollars, and finished.

Public transport sounds like what you're after zeph, and they'd probably be more effective at their job of transporting people from one place to another. problem with that is traffic -caused by people not using public- and the possibly annoying methods of getting a ticket to get on the transport and the various price ranges. [think london metro/bus system. Those 6 zones are teh sux.] A simply "pay proportional to time spent on transport" would suffice. would be high-tech and 'spensive to install, but would reduce oportunity cost for short distance commuting with public transport.

[rc mad]

ammon, why bother with a conventional piston setup, surely a turbine would be better?

Have a hybrid setup similar to todays fossil fuel / electric hybrids. Connect the turbine to a electric generator, stick a couple of electric motors in the wheel hubs, use a few batteries as part of the floor and your done. As an added bonus the motors act like generators during braking which can then be put back to use in the drive system. If you can quieten down the air compressors enough you could even have one at home, constantly running off a few solar panels /a small wind turbine. You'd just have to scale up slightly for fuel stations.

[Blue Bomber]

Google Hypercar concept... Or the Dymaxion Car. I hope we see better engines get developed, stuff like the Qurbine would be great. Hydraulic hybrid systems may actually prove to be better than electric ones, even in the long run, unless carbon ultracapacitors work out. It'd be really nice to see biodiesel from algae get the attention it deserves, unlike this BS hydrogen (which we can't make without cracking hydrocarbons or making a large amount of clean energy plants to split water, we'd also need a totally new system of gas stations). If we were smart we'd also be looking into designing future cities without the need for cars (arcos, my love) and with tons of originally planned public transport (and replace major airports with bullettrains, and get aeroscraft heavy lifters to make cargoflying cheaper).

[rc mad]

Thing is bomber, designing and building cities / building bullettrains & infrastructure takes time, energy and money and is a complete waste of resources. We need to design solutions that fit the existing infrastructure first and then look at designing the car out of the cities.

[ShpEagleEye]

Future cars will be twice as big and ten times as fuel consuming as the biggest and most expensive BMW and Mercedes nowadays. Because there will be only a few people being abled to pay for fuel, no matter how much it costs. The price of the car will be low in proportion to the fuel costs, so only the big cars will survive. And most people will not have a car at all and have to go by foot or public transport, just like 100 years ago.

[Vijil]

Water power ftw. Dump some seawater in your tank, turn car on, drive off.

It's enough to maintain 50kph with current techniques, however with research it could be made powerful and efficient. Problem is, no company with half a brain is going to do research into a fueling concept that is inherently unprofitable.

Instead, we'll probably see the sea levels rise by about three feet in the next fifty years, and that's assuming the ice caps don't start melting any faster than they already are. We'll lose a lot of land, which combined with current population growth will lead to serious congestion. Some scientists will introduce a genetic virus into the worlds food that causes females in third world countries to become sterile at age seventeen, which will help somewhat even if it does have some societal side effects.

The cities will become big enough and tall enough, coruscant style, that the only reasonable form of transport will be public.

[/prophecy]

[Scribble]

Hmm, I recall an interesting article on the use of powered Iron to fuel cars. As it happens powered iron packs a lot more joules than the petrol equivalent and can be made to run pollution free.

The big problem is that it coats the inside of the engine in rust unless milled infinitesimally small when it tends to melt the engine. However some chappy has apparently devised a size that's a happy medium and avoids both fates.

Unfortunately I cant find a good link to this other than this New Scientist stub.

As to the shape of cars... thats pretty much a fashion thing, though I imagine they will become increasing curvy given that people tend to prefer smooth edges over sharp ones. Saying that however 4x4's (SUVs) are by and large ugly as sin yet almost as popular.

[Zepherian]

It is not only styling, it is function defining form, mostly because of aerodynamic reasons.

[silver falcon]

I am actually looking more and more into these things. This is the perfect balance between motorcycle and car. it has a trunk, carries 2 (bigger version being developed for 4 seater) fast, fuel effiecent and isnt as prone to rolling over compared to other tripod cars in the works



http://www.carver-europe.com/

[hiddensmoke]

You can really say your a man in that thing . In my current area that car would do so horrible it would be wasting money, this most likely applies to most of middle America (from about Ohio to Utah or Nevada). The only way i see these cars really taking hold around where i live is by making them bigger and more "manly". Or making a truck verison, whichever comes first.

[Tails]

Tiny aerodynamic cars have been built and they are street legal as well as relatively affordable. Be sure to check the video.

But nevertheless it remains a novelty item. The reasons being, as some already discussed: safety and storage.

[Kheturus]

Mom's aren't going to be able to take the kids to soccer practice in a trike. Sorry, won't work. Next discussion please.

[Bnonn]

And yet, Silver Falcon, it's still gonna roll, and it's still gonna kill its occupants because it has no crumple zones.

\o/

[EarthBorn]

I rather like the fuel-cell solution more.
Of course, overcoming it's problems may take time.
(Nice cars, BTW)

[Verrin]

I have no doubt that the future of cars will be battery powered. Have you seen Toshiba's nano-battery? They plan to target it with vehicle use in mind, and I can see the potential. However, god knows how long it will take for them to give an update on the progress of it. They haven't said much about it since the press release last year.

[Reignfire]

I just remembered Eliica (Electric Lithium-Ion battery Car).

[silver falcon]

The car I posted is using a new hyrdulic system which the makers claim fights against any potential roll overs. The bottom portion of the "carver" stays level with the ground, the top part leans into any corner you take, the combination of level and turning traction has "allowed" the company to boast it being on of the safest vehicals of its "class" whatever that means.

as for how well they sell. the car is in europe and in huge demand, the company is reworking its production line to increase the number of cars produced annually by over 400% to keep up with the demand.

you guys might not like it, but aparently alot of others do. Think of it this way, it could be something worth your while buying stocks of right now if their boosting their supply that much, just to keep up with the demand.

[Handarazuur]

automobile schmautomobile; the death of cars

I say public transport will eventually take over as the primary means of getting from A to B. As it is, parking in a built-up area requires the kind of driving skills only afforded to people like Colin Mochrie or Rand McNally, and that's not parallel parking I'm talking about.

[Dimension]

over here, public transport is falling out of fashion, because it has grown to be really expensive. even trains. as soon as you are 2-3 people, taking a car or a cheap airline is better than public transportation.

[Ash]

omgwtf rocket car





cars will soon be far too expensive to drive regularly.

[BigTexTruckin]

Problem is, no company with half a brain is going to do research into a fueling concept that is inherently unprofitable.

Thats the whole problem right there. The petroleum companies are in bed with the automakers, and neither wants to be out of business. I think alcohal will be the first viable alternative fuel to hit the market only because it would require the least drastic change to infrastructure. Also, they can charge plenty for it due to the cost of manufacturing. We already pay 2 -3 dollars a gallon on average for gas, more in europe I understand, and people still drive larger and more inefficient cars and SUVs. So whats an extra couple of bucks a gallon for alcohal right? Atleast thats probably the industry's view. So unless they add some funky poison to it, you can top off your 42 oz. BigGulp at the pump to drink away your sadness about being broke.

[Rodimus]

Near future: Ethanol hybrids that charge the battery through both regenerative braking and ultra efficient solar cells. Everything will be by-wire and axles will be gone and all four wheels can be steered independently and coordinated via the computer. The engines will use a newly developed steam heat recapture system to boost the thermal efficiency of internal combustion from something like 25 percent to like 65 percent (this already exists).

[Ammon Ra]

Any drastic change in infrastructure = never will it happen. thinning out diesel and gasoline with biological substitutes, i.e. 40% diesel, 30% biodesel, 30%plant oil. that as an energy source isn't per se bad, or evil, as 60% of it's carbon emmissions come from fuels that absorb carbon from the air. That will only happen when oil prices rise enough to sustain companies that make the bio fuels, be it through subsidies, or actual price increase.

The seawater [potential energy] idea won't ever be developed by a company as the only revenue they can get from that is the car itself, the margin of profit for such a company would be small.

ammon, why bother with a conventional piston setup, surely a turbine would be better?

Short answer: No. unless you want more power.

long answer: I don't see any cars running around with turbines, do you? There's a reason for that. Turbines require large amounts of stored energy to work, and deliver an equally large force. Besides the overkill in output force, there's the [HIGH] cost of running and maintaining a turbin, and one running on pressurized air would generate alot of power for a short amount of time untill most of the air just passes through the blades. The engine in the aircar is not a conventional engine. It can run on any combustible gas, and is more efficient than a normal single piston engine. hey it runs on pressurized air, and there's no way that that stored energy can dissipate easily. It's also Safer, which is a *very* important word for commercial use. sure, you could use a large tank to pressurize the air to some rediculous pressure, but if that canister were to crack in a car crash, for example, it would probably rupture, turning it into a deadly projectile. A turbine working on pressurized air might be ok for industy level, but not for commercial applications.

As for fuel-cell [hydrogen] cars, it can never become a full replacement for the petroleum car industry. Not enough platinum that allows the fuel cell to work, and platinum -aka white gold- Is rather expensive. I'd wager that a maximum sales fuel-cell based cars would achieve is 10%. Hybrid cars are would generally become the norm. Another problem with hydrogen is the fuel. It's hard to store hydrogen as it boils off at 5% per day, thus the only sure method of storing hydrogen would be by storing protons and electrons in a magnetic fields, which isn't perfect in itself. Then you have the molecule based fuels where the hydrogen is created onboard the car as it's needed. .i.e. methane is a possible candiate, and it's easier to store, but because it's larger it's energy density is rather low.

[trebmal_ca]

the ultimate future auto, is no auto at all. We have to ditch the idea of "personal" transportation, and re-design public transit systems.

[Derivative]

Then there would be uproar from the rural people.

Has anyone thought of using the sun as a fuel and not using solar cell panels?

You can build a radio that runs purely on the radio waves. However, it is very quiet. If you remove the speaker and place something else there, such as a motor, it should run; unless friction overpowers it. Now change that radio to pick up higher electromagnetic waves, like light. This is a far-fetched idea and I had to stop when I found out how small the antenna would have to be.

[Ammon Ra]

radio-powered motors? For toys perhaps. like, no bigger than a cm because the tourque would burn up the motor. Speaker and motor are similar from an electrical point of view.

Photovoltaic cells aren't efficient enough to be the sole source of power for anything. However, if a decentralized PVC network were to be established, then that could also work. Have your car's cells generate electricity when not in use that you can then 'sell'.

[Noir]

the ultimate future auto, is no auto at all. We have to ditch the idea of "personal" transportation, and re-design public transit systems.

like figuring out a way to prevent transit strikes?

[silver falcon]

the ottawa public transportation system is awsome. here its the way to get around. if you are constantly using the "octranspo" here on a daily basis, you can buy passes, if not you can pay in cash (expensive) or buy tickets which make it about 75cents per ride.

their are over 150 routes here taking every possible road. if your not sure what bus to take. the website provides timetables and even a travel planner. you type in your start and end addresses and it tells you the next bus times, where, the bus number you should get on and the time it will take.

I was going to buy a car, but now.. thats more expensive then the public buses here.

as for public transit strikes. the octranspo has had two within half a year... what happened? they showed up to work and still drove the busses... just didnt bother to wear their uniforms... here a "strike" is basically "hawaiian shirt day"

[Dante]

Mercedes came out with Blue-tec recently (or at least showed it off at auto-shows), promosing super high efficiency diesel. Ford has been pushing for hybrid ever since Bill Ford stepped into power. And so on...

The point is that a lot of these companies are saying they are going green (in Detroit and Chicago autoshows, most companies, if not just the parent one had at least one hybrid showing). However I think this is only a trend that the car companies are following, and we in our lifetimes will never see more hybrids than 10-20% efficiency cars on the road.

(w00t for me...13.4 MPG!)