[WA 1.41] How to counter stack a game and win.

[Troubleshooter]

First, so that you know... C}{aos and I play alot of games together, I know tank_killer from playing against him a few times... just enough to know hes not a noob.

The other team (the hosts) are all uber pros from the looks of thier stats. I havent gone to the stats web page to be sure, but before the game I glanced at a couple of them and noticed all high %'s and that Dragon has over 900 games with a +50% average. These are serious stacking players if ever you see them.

Going into this match, I was sure we were meat! I also knew that I was squared off against the eldar from the get-go... and had no intention of going 1v1 against a 900 game vetran eldar player with IG... No WAY!

So, what does any good IG player do when faced with the Eldar menace... RUN! Run like HELL!!! :sprint: LOL. The trick was to make the eldar try to keep up with my tunnels and get a commie rush out the door right quick! We tripled up on their IG and basically tried to bleed them dry on troops. We were very fortunate that the Eldar took the bait and didnt vehicle tech - my base would have had a hard time of it.

The thing I would like to say about this game is that the enemy team was a bit miffed that we had a commie rush and a PP mass. Thats really not fair when you consider the level of player we were up against, and that the game was stacked anyways! A commie rush is still suicide against Eldar, and sure as shit he went early FS and reapers - a recipe for dead IG... while the SM player massed ASM with FC/PP... so really I dont consider our tactics any more cheese than theirs... we were just quicker and massed all together properly.

Just so you know... I was never totally sure we would win this game... I always expected the WL's to start hitting my base or Termies to start falling from the sky.... we were very fortunate that they didnt tech when they had the chance. :claw:

Cheers!

[Penitent]

Hey you play online as Troublechutor, when I asked you if you was Troubleshooter from RN (as Adamkicksass) you said no :/

They were right, you all abused, in team games I fear a double Imperial Guard/Chaos rush. Against Eldar the gloves come off of course, they have 5+ patches of crimes against balance to answer for. You did the right thing strategically, but really I don't see how they were meant to stop you because it is a very imba rush in my experience, followed up by Wraithlord spam no less. They should have teched instead of trying to outfight you in tier 1 though.

[Troubleshooter]

I always call you by your RN name on line... you probably cought me mid thought/sentence with someone else.

As for the abuse... Comie rushing with eldar around is no guarantee... PP massing for chaos seemd a bit sketchy to me as far as abuse, but it was probably less effective than zerks would have been. All in all, I dont defend our choice of tactics... I think when we saw their stats we were all scared into going for a trusted build.

I think that when you consider the counter builds from the other team... only the IG didnt have a custom build going for countering us.. but he got hit so fast there was not time to find out what he had planned. The only person innocent of "abuse" was the guy who didn't have time to work out an abuse

Seriously, the Eldar did a stock anti-ig build order (except for the builder scouting, which was ment to either signal an anti IG BO or kill a few heretics)... so they get no sympathy from me on that front.

[Penitent]

I agree with you on the Eldar front, you cannot throw them a bone especially as IG, one Falcon is the end of your tier 1 IG army, but I find their tier 1 is beatable if you manage to avoid the worst of the Psychic Storm (not a sure thing I know). I might try your idea of taking out his ally first. About the plasma pistols, if you add grenades it is as much abuse as anything, although he didn't use grenades that time. Combined with IG it is the double rush I fear the most.

I've been playing against some clans and other organised teams and the abuse is really getting shameless of late, I guess nobody feels bad about it anymore, it's abuse or die now. I blame Eldar.

I prefer not to use commies, I find a general with priest (maybe a commie too) and 3 reinforced IG squads can handle most things tier 1. I also dislike grenades, I prefer to go sergeants and armour upgrades, they still kill most things tier 1 and I find the grenades useless against zerkers, nobs and shees later on in the game. Overall grenades plus commies slows your teching down too much when you don't actually need them to rush anyway, at least in my opinion. I go fast weapons specialisation with plasma and chimeras.

[-Processor-]

lol trou, please let me clear this up: I know two of them on the other team, one was my old teammate but we haven't played much together since 1.41. I wouldnt consider them uber pros but they were good players. Two of them had an auto like ar'd 1250-1300. I'd rather think we were on the equal level with them, well maybe they were better but not by much. Its almost a mirror match with eldar vs. IG on two sides of the map. We had a chaos in the middle while they had a SM. Singer harassing an IG player is imo, pointless even you get the first blood.

I've been playing against some clans and other organised teams and the abuse is really getting shameless of late, I guess nobody feels bad about it anymore, it's abuse or die now. I blame Eldar.

Tell me doing what will not be accused of abuse?

Edit: I can't remember : did that SM player on the other team build anything else at all besides those gazillon sqauds of ASM?
did he even bring a chappy or a hellfire?

[Troubleshooter]

The singer harrass was not really meant to do anything but determine the Eldars' BO. Either he was going anti IG or anti Chaos... and if he had found chaos, it would have been the end of his heretics. It was a win-win for him to do it... so long as he didnt find eldar

Only after watching the replay did I see how onesided the game was, and how we measured up against them... but a 900+ game eldar vet... LOL! My "pucker factor" was off the charts when the game started !!! Perhaps I overestemated their abilities... but keep in mind I dont handle 1v1 match-ups well yet (i am hovering around 1200 1v1 myself)

The safest and most effective place for my forces was on the other side of the map!

[nude-fox]

sry for the minor derails but what is PP massing

[Penitent]

Plasma Pistol massing. You get a couple of Cultists squads and maybe a Chaos Lord, then buy Aspiring Champions and plasma pistols from the armoury.

[-Processor-]

but a 900+ game eldar vet... LOL! My "pucker factor" was off the charts when the game started !!!

lol hey trou have you ever tried to track down all my nicknames and add up numbers? If you had done that you might have felt much more confident in that game. Ahh maybe not, cuz you know im still a nooby elfy.

Heck as we all know stats dont really mean much ... peace !

P.S. remember you fended off strakvos scout rush in that match?
hes ar'd 1500

[Troubleshooter]

Sigh... I still have an inferiority complex i guess I still dont consider myself to be in a top tier of play cause I still get Pwned from time to time by hard core players.... mainly the 1500 variety

Yeah... the earlier tech monkey comment refered to your SM builds... mostly DS/OB FTW at 9:00 ...LOL!

[Stravkos]

Heh, Processor is right Trouble, you're better than you give yourself credit for. Everyone gets owned from time to time, heck I''m in the mid 1400s right now and my win ration is around 54%!

So lose the inferiority complex(exception: when you're not on my team, lol)

[Troubleshooter]

Heh, Processor is right Trouble, you're better than you give yourself credit for. Everyone gets owned from time to time, heck I''m in the mid 1400s right now and my win ration is around 54%!

Thanx. Playing with/against people like you and some of the other regulars on these boards certainly helps sharpen the pointy end of my spear. I guess there is something about going up against a stacked (hosted) game tends to make me reach for the IMBA stick pretty fast.

I think the point about win ratios is that if you are playing against players of equal or greater calibre, your win % should be in the 50% range... only noob bashers are able to manage a 500+ game account with a win ratio over 75% it seems. I dont usually have much respect for clanners with 200 games and 90%'s... for some reason they almost always fall for bunker rushing or heavy agressive tactics.

[xDoKx]

heh that was a good game. i love seeing stackers get pwned . keep it up!

[SpaceMarineJoe]

Lol you phear, 900+ games eh trouble? I got 1200+ between my 5 accounts (but they are all with different races I guess).

Don t trust stats, trust ladder and if they have a ladder check there %. If someone is 1400+ and 78% or somethin then you know your in trouble(cause they are not heavy fluctuators). If someone is 1500 IG then you dont have to wry about anything cause they noob commi rushers.

In general I would have to say all imbalances are much less pronounced in team games and I find I can counter anything in team games(also because imbalances are less present on big maps).

Take chaos PP for example, as SM you will have seen him with your first scout squad way before he is at your base, get infiltrate, go to base, kill heretics(so no power gens = no PS and no econ), and just save up your FC and tacs then CC there ass.

Eldar has guide and reapers and massive AoE knocks, psychic storm pretty much instantly kills all cultists, and MW takes the first AC down to half HP... whats so uncounterable?

IG has commi rush which deals with PP just fine on larger maps cause you have time to grab those GLs to counter them.

Orks get a forward LP up witih infiltrated grots(likwid likes to do that one ^^), BM eats teh CSM squad, you got sluggas to tie and a waaagh banner that will repair faster than it dies.

A lot of times the imbalances that happen in 1v1s are because of the sizes of the map. You cannot hit a base with a commi rush as fast as you could on say blood river or tibborax and there is so much more distance between SPs.

[Troubleshooter]

Lol you phear, 900+ games eh trouble?

This time I did! I think it had to do with seeing his primary race being eldar, and my decision to go IG.

I have 500 games in 1.41 with my primary being split evenly between IG and chaos... so thats like 250 with IG... and I never really learned IG 1v1 Builds till just reciently since all I used them for before was for defense and occasionally a bunker rush.

So seeing a player with 900 games means he almost certainly has more than double my experience with a race that is custom designed to hand me my ass on a plate in tier 1, and WL+BL tier 2 is a scary thing unless you have skull probes!!!

Yeah... I was pretty nervous... enough so that I was dancing with joy at not getting slain by eldar (again) when it was all over.

I got 1200+ between my 5 accounts

Yeah, well... you are no picnic to go up against either! At least I generally know what to expect from you though

[-Processor-]

Don t trust stats, trust ladder and if they have a ladder check there %. If someone is 1400+ and 78% or somethin then you know your in trouble(cause they are not heavy fluctuators). If someone is 1500 IG then you dont have to wry about anything cause they noob commi rushers.

second.

I have seen that 900+ player doing 1 on 1 and he was pretty good. But in a team game , haha anythings possible.