Gamers v. Congress

[AcolyteOfDeath]

Proof of the inexistance of a god who watches over Gamers.

It seems to me that the government, for many long years (well, at least, in computer time) has been supporting the vocal oppression of a select minority in its population. The American populace perhaps supports the largest gamer populations in the world - both game creators and game players - whom are being targeted by their blatant stereotyping.

The gamer him/herself is an entirely different kind of person from the common strain. He/she displays entirely different behaviours and lifestyles. There exists an entire gaming culture which has sprung up around memorables such as Warcraft, Starcraft, Half-Life, Counterstrike, Diablo 2, Homeworld, and many others. Entire gaming clans, close knit communities and even - with the first generation of gamers aging - entire gaming families.

It is only too clear now to see that the gamer is an ethnic minority, and as such, must not be treated any differently. Gamers as a group are perhaps one of the few ethnic minorities that it is legal to oppress.

Demand equal rights for gamers!

[/satire]

[TwoToneSocks]

hummm.....i thought we already had equal rights; its just that no one seems to care.

[Paladin]

It's a simple matter of the fact that the youth is the one minority it's acceptable to put down. As gaming becomes more and more mainstream among the adult population it will cease to be criticized because adults will have an interest in it. Until that time it is an easy target because using it as a scapegoat primarily affects the youth and the youth have no voice, and few defenders.

-Paladin

[Vaarok]

And when we do hit the point where we have a voice, we'll still be a minority, because witless people will still outnumber us. However, they will not be so inclined to be against us. So for once, apathy will be in our favor.

[Langy]

Most of the people I know at my school are getting damned close to voting age, as well as mainly being gamers and those people interested in these 'violent games.' I wouldn't be surprised if this bill IS passed, and then five years later someone else gets a ticket to capitol hill on a train marked 'FOR THE GAMERS!'

EDIT: Of course, then he'd repeal the bill and stop any other bill like this crud from passing. And then he'd become president, and it would be Gamer Heaven! Hoorah!

[Dan Van Crone]

"Mr. President."

"I told you to call me pr3z1d0r."

"Alright, Mr. pr3z1d0r. We have Yassar Arafat waiting on the phone for you."

"Tell him to hold. Just another 2,000XP and I can level up. Then I can summon SIX skeletons."

Some time ago a friend of mine and I were ruminating over some bourbons (as you do) when he said "Can you imagine what will happen when kids of this generation grow up and go into fields like politics? You'll have delegates on the floor of the UN saying stuff like "j00 c4n'7 fr4g m3 w1th j00r n3wkz! 1 h4v3 m4d sk1llz!"

And so they shall.

[Trinity]

Well, not likely to get impeached for playing a game as one would for playing an intern.

[Martian]

If that bill is accepted, I am going to laugh.

But I don't think it will be accepted if your congress is sensible: as explained in that article, it is not the best way to stop young kids from getting those games, because it will be totally unenforcable.

I like the idea of a special rack for mature-rated video games though.

[eadipus]

i don't see a problem with it. all it means is that instead of kids being able to buy games which have content that could be considered offensive there parents have to do it for them. here you can be fined for selling games to people who aren't old enough (i had to ID people) and i've never seen a problem with it. if anything it means that parents who don't know what kind of games there children are playing will, and they can make their own decisions about it (i've seen parents buying their 7 year old son GTA Vice City).

[Alliance]

DIE CONGRESS!

you do know that 99 persent of action games are 17+...

the gaming indtursty would die, and a underground indrusty for those kind's of games would rise, and btw, how manny sex games are there? i mean computer sex games, exept of bmx xxx?

[Paladin]

But I don't think it will be accepted if your congress is sensible

They're not.

I don't see a problem with it. all it means is that instead of kids being able to buy games which have content that could be considered offensive there parents have to do it for them.

I do. It's not the government's job to parent. It's not the store clerk's job to parent. If parents don't know what their kids are playing that is their failure, and they shouldn't be trying to offload their responsibilities onto the rest of society.

-Paladin

[Ressev]

Just a minor nit-pick:

Gamers as a group are perhaps one of the few ethnic minorities that it is legal to oppress.

It should be noted that to be a minority is ONE thing. To be an ethnic/racial minority and thus unable to change ones status is another thing completely. Gamers are not an ethnic minority but a minority and thus not entitled to percieved special privlages.

Anyways... back on topic: These are the kinds of Bills that raise your taxes and waste peoples valuable time. It would be simpler if morality were taught at home than legislate peoples choices in entertainment (really, if people don't want to buy it then the product dies). Here is my favorite quote from the article:

Which federal agency is going to enforce this law? Do we need or want the federal government to add a Department of Videogames? The FBI and CIA's time and resources are better spent on homeland security instead of enforcing this law.
- Eduardo

To True, to true.

[Kheturus]

Yeah, I hated the way I was discriminated against when I tried to buy alcohol when I was 16. This is the exact same problem. I also get discriminated agasint when I apply for Jobs. All these companies are saying, "You need a PhD to be a lead researcher." How much more discriminating can you get? And the way that police officers are allowed to carry weapons, while the rest of society is discriminated against. It's shameful.

So while I disagree with this bill, I also think that alcohol, firearms and drugs should be legalized so that we won't be disciminated there either.

[Paladin]

Heh, I guess you know where you stand in relation to someone when you actually agree with the substance of their obviously sarcastic post.

-Paladin

[Martian]

Paladin: I am afraid our definitions of 'sensible' differ so much, that your opinion on this doesn't mean much for me... but you could be right

[AcolyteOfDeath]

You do know, Ressev, that my statement was intended to be satire?

[bitz]

ummm, first of all i thought it was already illegal for 17 or below to buy or rent m games.

secondly, i've yet to see crimes that were directly related to gta3 or other violent games. circumstance is their only weapon, logic is their weakness. so really, who cares what a bunch of angry old politicians have to say about gaming now.

[Higaran]

The real truth is that millions of people have computers and 90% of the owners don't know dog-shit how to use them. Ok, I'm a geek, and all of you that know what the hell l33t speak is are geeks too, don't be fooling your selves. The thing is that the 90% can barely play solitare on their computers, let alone install and figure out something like quake, or homeworld. I pray for the day that DVC talks about where people in the UN actually talk like that, then and only then, we might have a unified world because people will realze that the internet and computers have really brought us together, and that it won't matter what nationality you are because we will all realize we are all human, and that the only thing that matters is that I'm kicking your ass in HW2 or maybe HW4. Right now for the 90% that don't understand, the computer is just sort of a wall, they see one image of some one getting killed, and they are scared because of ignorance.

[Langy]

Hig - That's 90% of the older people. It's the complete reverse for (what I assume to be) our generation. We grew up with computers and games. It's almost impossible to not know anything about computers if you are a teenage guy nowadays. In forty, fifty, sixty years, we might actually get an all-gamer congress, because the non-gamer would be in such a minority that they wouldn't matter.

[Zeenith]

as far as my opion is that congress should back the hell away from computer games. and i agree with Higaren that 90% of people that have computers dont know jack §µit about it.

People are scared of what they dont know and/or dont understand so they say its evil and say it shouldn't be there.

but hell as i said before congress and people that dont understand computers and games should just back the hell away, for they know not what they do.

[Russian Ninja]

This reminds me of something really stupid a while ago.

Some time ago the Greek government tried to totally ban any-and-all electronic games of any kind. Computer, Gameboys, PS2's, Mobile Phone games, X-Boxes. All these were now illegal. People who owned internet cafes were fined and taken into custody. Apparently the whole thing was ment to "Crack down on Internet Gambling ". It was totally stupid. Eventually they had to scrap the law because most other European countries thought it was too drastic and had nothing to do with internet gambling.

Not to mention being incredibly stupid.

And this is almost just as stupid. As Higaran said, it is the parent's fault that they can't use a mouse the right way and don't know @%$! about games. There are plenty of sensible people, but there are also lots of idiots. There was this researcher,Lois Salisbury, who was in charge of investigating the steriotypes of women and generally trying to ferret something out to blame the game industry for. This came out of Australian PC Power Play btw, Issue 81, as part of an article on how people are trying to ban games.

Acording to this person, "54% of games surveyed contain female lead characters while 92% have male lead characters. These games which feature female characters tend to display women in an exaggerated and stereotypical manner, with 38% displaying significant body exposure and..." blah blah blah, you get the idea. "In addition, 38% of female game characters have large breasts and 46% had unusually small waists. Altogether 54% of the female game characters were depicted as fighting or being violent, while many exhibited stereotypical female behavior..."

There is all kinds of other BS that people try to blame on games. The fact is that anyone outside the gaming community have absolutely no idea what goes on inside the gaming community. I wouldn't be surprised if the American Congress passes this bill. The fact is that Games are being blamed because people don't have anything else to blame. I mean look at that quote. Researching if the female characters have large breasts and small waists? Haven't these people heard of advertising? Don't these people know that the movies are probably worse than games? Don't these people know that they should get a life?

You get the idea.

EDIT: That quote wasn't copywrited ok. Anyway There is plenty of other stuff like this.

[Bonnet]

Ack how stupid can congress get. dont they know the games are trainging thier next generation of soldiers for them? you have generals from cnc generals and youre men from games DFLW and battelfield 1942 (this is a joke). seriously though congress just seems to think that if you shoot somebody on a computer youre going to walk outside and do the same.

[Langy]

Umm.... 54% had female lead characters while 92% had male lead? Is that even possible? Well, I guess if they change their gender in the middle of the game...

[Russian Ninja]

You can have more than 1 lead character. A lead character has to be one which the storyline revolves around. So if the story revolves around a group of people, then you have a number of leads.

[Tygre]

§µit

Stop it.

If they try to "protect" me from games I'm going to walk into Congress and start shooting people with a bazooka. I'd never get caught, either, because cops don't know how to go up stairs.

Seriously folks. A top-shelf policy as suggested and an optional "We card/Yuo n33d p4r3n7 premisoin" sort of thing for each store is the most I'll be content with being put into place. I don't even buy M-rated games that much (but I'll tell ya, if I had $250 I'd pick up an Xbox and DOAXBV right freaking now).

I have a dream...I'm watching volleyball. But whenever the gaming man tries to get ahead in a virtual world through violence and lewd acts, the PURITAN WHITE MAN keeps him down.

[Mac_Bug]

higaran that's possibly the most coherent thought I've gotten out of you yet, now I must tweak your software for better mileage

[Higaran]

Thank you mac, I know this because as I say I am a geek, one of my jobs a few years back when I was younger was selling PC's at BEST BUY, its a tech store basicaly, for those of you that never heard of it. 99% of the people I talked with didn't know krap even if it was like their second or third pc. Its sad really, but I digress, hell, I have to say that probably only really one guy that I meet really knew anything, and as talking to this guy he tells me he is A+, MS, and in the proccess of CISCO certification. No offense Mac, but anyone that choses their pc just because of the color of the case, or just because its a certin brand name should be shot in the head. I can't remember how many times I was asked how to do something trivial like how to install a program or where do I plug in my joystick, it drove me mad for the longest time.

{EDIT}

Yea sure I'd love for you to tweak my software.

[Paladin]

People should be required to build their own PCs. That way they might actually know something about how it works.

-Paladin

[Martian]

But there would be less noobs to kill, and less funny kids calling you a cheater when you kick their ass =[

[AcolyteOfDeath]

Yes, indeed. We must always have an ample supply of n00bs on which to feed. The future of the 1337 gaming world depends upon the oppression of the n00bie class.

[Vaarok]

Which is why this forum grew the IC appendages once the HWers began to thin out.

Sometimes I think extinction might've been preferable.

[General Nuke Em]

Congress won't pass this bill because the gaming industry will fight it like hell, and who does the gaming industry include? Microsoft (which has enough money to burn to get this beaten down). Now, that won't be the only reason, there are others (such as the fact that this bill is idiotic, educated voters would never go for it, etc).

[Alliance]

m$ can basicly bidd out any one, cash wize, they probly have a private army...

[ASnogard]

I really get annoyed when politicians stick their noses into the gaming scene.

My opinion they do this because

a) They r clueless about games and what they don't know they try get rid of rather than take the effort to learn

b) Catching brownie points with the populace , the state and the president

c) Got their butts kicked in a HW MP and sore losers

Serious though all this atempts to police the gaming scene is mere laziness of society , parents want the goverment to raise their kids rather than take the effort required, and certain politicians are more than happy to use this to further thier own careers.

[No Surrender]

I am deeply shocked that the thought to require parental permition to buy an M rated game. If the Game rating system is the same as the movie rateing system then I should be required to have a parent's permission to see Star Wars or Final Fantasy.

Heck, most of the time if a person gets even remotly hurt it's an M. Has congress ever try to ban movies or tv?

Plus, the banning of games would cause a major slowdown in the IT sector (y would u need a P4 3.5 to use microsoft word?) and the economy can't take that.

Anyway, I live in China so i can just hop out any bloody day i want and buy what ever the heck I want and no clerk is ever going to ask for my age. Hell, one of my friends bought a porn disk and they didn't eve care (he threw the disc away.)

[Commodore-SLS]

Youth should be discriminated against. 90% are so stupid I would not really qualify them as self-aware. As opposed to adults, who aren't normally that bright either. Humans disgust me.

[Agdune]

humans are creepy little monkey things. of course they're stupid

[Paladin]

Bah. I already gave you the reason politicians are so anxious to get their claws into video games. You obviously did not read the essay. Click me and be enlightened.

-Paladin

[Mac_Bug]

I don't see a problem with stopping 'kids' from playing violent video games. Quite obviously any 'responsible' parent is capable of taking their kid to the store and buying them games they want their kids to play.

[Russian Ninja]

Anyone outside the gaming community has absolutely no idea what goes on inside the gaming community. So what if some idiots can't distinguish between a game of CS and reality. The rest of us shouldn't suffer from their stupidity.

The government doesn't really care about policing computer laws. Burning CD's and DVD's is illegal, yet does the government take any steps to inforce this law?

[Mac_Bug]

so what if a few get killed in car accidents because of 'excessive speed'? the rest of us shouldn't suffer from their stupidity

[Paladin]

I don't see a problem with stopping 'kids' from playing violent video games. Quite obviously any 'responsible' parent is capable of taking their kid to the store and buying them games they want their kids to play.

Ah, but that's exactly the reason there should not be a law preventing it. The law shields the irresponsible from the consequences of their actions, takes the responsibility out of the hands of the people. It is the government saying "We understand that it's too great a responsibility for you to handle, raising your children. We will relieve you of that responsibility."

How are beneficial evolutionary factors to take effect if the people are allowed to take wrong action without facing the consequence of their actions?

-Paladin

[Mac_Bug]

By that logic there shouldn't be anything preventing children to watch NC17 movies, visit porn sites, rent adult videos, buy cigarettes, drink alcohol, drive cars, vote, or anything of that sort simply because their parents should be parents and TEACH THEIR KIDS NOT TO DO IT.

[Ressev]

Originally posted by AcolyteOfDeath
You do know, Ressev, that my statement was intended to be satire?

You're right!, sorry. :fallen:
I really don't know how I missed that.

[Ressev]

Yeah Hig, in 50 years gamers will be in Congress and want to settle political disputes via LAN Dathmatches on the Senate Floor.

Interesting idea actually...

[Tygre]

Bush's team of level 99 Pikachus defeats Sadaam's crappy ass team of poisonous...mutated...sand stuff...

[Vaarok]

Eellemmings vs Cobrascorps?

[Paladin]

By that logic there shouldn't be anything preventing children to watch NC17 movies, visit porn sites, rent adult videos, buy cigarettes, drink alcohol, drive cars, vote, or anything of that sort simply because their parents should be parents and TEACH THEIR KIDS NOT TO DO IT.

Exactly. It's no one else's job to raise your children.

[Mac_Bug]

It's really pointless to argue the topic with you then on that note. However, when a lot of people here say 'it's the parents' job', how far does their responsibility extend? It's also a parent's job to vote and decide the best environment for their children and the policies they entrust their kids to, and laws are also a tool in a parent's toolkit to help them do their job.

[Paladin]

No, they are not. It is cowardice to cede one's responsibilities to government. It speaks of weakness. "I do not wish to be bound to causality. I want to be able to do what I wish without accepting the natural consequences. I will therefore remove from myself all burdens of responsibility, the government should be responsible for me."

Such a population becomes dependant on government. Such a populace is at risk because it cannot fend for itself. This is unacceptable.

Order such as this reduces humans to automata. A person in such a state is no longer alive, he merely waits for death. Do you not understand that perfect order would halt evolution?

-Paladin