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[1.41]Space Marine Community Strategy Guide

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    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    [1.41]Space Marine Community Strategy Guide

    The Following Is a Collection of Help Strategies, Hints, Tips and tricks for Space Marine Players Playing in Winter Assault 1.41, this will be Updated When 1.5 Comes out so have no fear.

    Congratulations of Your Promotion Brother, You will now lead our forces to victory. Here is a current run down on known Deployment Strategies and Units.


    Troop Listing

    Scout Space Marines
    Scouts are the first unit type available to you. Built from the stronghold they are a tough first tier unit. Able to be upgraded with Flamers, Plasma Guns and Sniper Rifles; they shouldn't be overlooked when engaging the enemy.

    Skull Probes
    The Skulls of fall servants of the emperor live on in this device, able to infiltrate enemy lines, where they can cause havoc by disabling nearby enemy amour and buildings

    Tactical Space Marines
    Tactical Space Marines or Just plainly Space Marines will form the Core of any Space Marine army. Heavy armored and highly effective at combat, they will play at the heart of most strategies. They are also able to fill a wide range of combat roles with heavy weapon upgrades, ranging from Flamers for Morale damage, to Heavy Bolters to cut down light Infantry, Plasma Guns to handle Heavier Targets and Missile Launchers for an Effective Anti-Vehicle unit.

    Assault Space Marines
    These are a Jump troop infantry, leaping into battle to engage in deadly Hand to Hand combat, and are extremely effective "Hero Killers" when used in squads of two. Because their range damage is quite low, it is recommended that you only engaged stationary targets, as they are wasted chasing infantry around. They are also able to handle lightly armored Vehicle units with Melta Bombs.

    Apothecary
    A dedicated healing unit which can be assigned/attached to a target space marine squad to provide them with healing. The Apothecary lacks any ranged weaponry, but does pack a punch in close combat. They are also best used along the sides on a Chaplin (See Below) to increase the rate of healing as well are area of effect.

    Terminators
    A dedicated heavily armored ranged that can hold its own if it is engaged in melee combat. Built from the Chapel Barracks it can be deep strike to anywhere on the map upon completion, supporting units already on the field. Terminators are able to be upgraded with an Assault Cannon and a Heavy Flamer.

    Assault Terminators
    A Close Combat only Unit, Assault Terminators are armed with a thunder hammer and storm shield, these heavy armored units slowly make their way into battle, where the can cause the most damage. The Assault Terminators thunder hammer is able to stun the crews of tanks, rendering them useless to the enemy.

    Vehicle Listing

    Rhino
    An Un-armed, Armored Transport unit. Can carry 1 Squad of Space Marines into Battle.

    Land speeder
    Primarily a scout unit, the land speeder hovers above the ground, granting it a faster speed than tracked units; it also has the ability to fly over a large distance using its jump ability. An Effective light infantry counter; they should be deployed in packs of 2-4 units.

    Dreadnought
    A walking tomb, a fallen brother pilots these large walker units. This Unit is primarily a Close combat unit, tying up large squads causing massive destruction, can be upgraded with an assault cannon or lascannon, but isn't recommended due to lose of close combat ability. They can also be deep strike from the orbital relay.

    Hellfire Dreadnought
    A Ranged Version of the Normal Dreadnought, this one is armed with a missile launcher and assault cannon, and is an effective counter for enemy Vehicles as well as infantry. Can also be deep strike.

    Whirlwind
    A Dedicated Missile Battery, it launches missile across the field of battle cause massive destruction to units below its missiles. This unit should never spear head an assault, rather it should provide support to advancing troops. For Effective deployment, have 2-5.

    Predator
    The Predator is primarily a tank hunter unit, using its Four Lascannon to make quick work of enemy armor, but be carefully, it can be trapped into Close combat units, allowing enemy Anti-Tank units to destroy it easily.

    Land Raider
    The largest and most armored of all Space Marine Units, the land raider is able to make quick work of enemy infantry thanks to its mounted storm bolter, as well as handle enemy armor with 2 twin linked lascannon. It also has the ability to take even more damage thanks to its Machine Spirit; the only downside is the reduced speed.

    Commander Listing

    Force Commander
    The Primary Commander unit of all space marine forces, he is able to deal out a lot of damage when in close combat, and isn't that bad of a shot either. Attach him to a squad to increase his rate of survival. He is also able to call down a hail of holy fire with his orbital bombardment, making quick work of units or structures, use carefully; it has a long recharge time.

    Liberian
    A weak Commander when compared with the other two, he certainly makes up for it with his psychic abilities.

    Chaplin
    The Chaplin is a powerful close combat unit, and combined with his healing aura, he is quite a force to be reckoned with.


    Now that you know what you command, here’s how to effectively deploy these units in the field of battle


    1 v 1 Strategies

    sypher_diaz/general moon's 1v1 Build

    Servitor 1: build barracks
    At HQ queue :
    Servitor (shortcut S)
    4x Scout squads (shortcut M)

    Send the servitor to help finish the barracks
    Then send the first scout squad towards the enemy base to find out what you’re up against / harass.

    If against chaos, target heretics, as they will usually be low on health due to forced labour. If you find enemy units capping points, click on the point as though to cap it even though the enemy is still there, and as soon as they finish capping, you will de-cap the point. Only retreat if a hero unit appears, or if they mob you with vastly more troops. Reinforce the first harass squad to keep it alive as necessary. As your other troops appear do the same type of things, de-cap points and focus fire on enemy capping squads to cripple their economy.

    Then send your remaining 3 scouts to cap nearby points and build an LP on the nearest point.

    Cue each scout squad to go and join the first at the enemy base by holding the SHIFT key and clicking at the enemy base. This means the scouts will cap the point, then run to the enemy base immediately.

    As soon as your barracks is built, build an FC (force commander shortcut F), and send it to join the scouts in the attack. As you get the money build a space marine squad (shortcut M)

    To finish any enemy commander units I advise attaching your FC to a scout squad when you send him into CC, as this gives him a human shield, and will help keep him alive till the enemy hero is dead. This used to be common practice, but I've noticed a lot of people getting sloppy and neglecting this one recently.

    Once you feel you are on top, build a power gen and then an armory. Depending on how your troops are doing you will choose whether to buy the plasma pistol (PP) upgrade for your FC or the power sword upgrade (PS). If you have killed all his units and are just cleaning up buildings, get the PS upgrade, as PS eats buildings. If you are still battling hard against troops get the PP upgrade as this will cut down enemy infantry quite nicely. Once you have these upgrades start to upgrade LP's and think about doing the tier 2 research. (This is pretty much the only imbalance I do use.....but CSM have the same imba, and guard is the race of imba.....so there’s no guilt)

    This build works well against SM CSM Eldar and to some extent guard, but is poor vs. Orks as the scouts will get cut apart by building guns.

    Orks can be a tough match up for SM as the "shoota rush" is very effective, in the shoota rush the Ork will send (usually) 2 slugga squads a big mek and 2/3 shoota squads into your base early on. It’s very hard to counter, but try to keep the shootas from focus firing on your commander. You may have to use ASM. Getting an early LP2 can be a help as the extra fire power can be helpful in repelling the rush. As a long term Ork player I can say that it’s all too easy to commit too much req and time to the shoota rush, only to be beaten by a tech to tier 2. So think about the long term game and try to hold them off while reaching tier 2 if you can.


    Akranadas' ASM Build

    Servitor builds Barracks
    Queue up 1 scout squad, servitor then another scout squad (a 3rd if it’s a 4v4 map).
    1st Scout Squad Cap's closest SP, while 2nd Servitor Helps build barracks, 2nd Scouts cap another SP, and continue Capping.

    Once Barracks is done, start on the Armory, at about 15% of it building, you should have capped your first point, get a servitor to build an LP straight away. This will ensure a steady income.

    Once amour is built, overmatch ASM, it should be building 1 squad straight away, get the remaining servitor to build another LP. Don't worry, if done right, you will have enough for a second ASM squad. Once the First ASM squad is out and the second is building have them harass the first enemy SP, killing units when you can.

    Once you have the second ASM out, begin over watching both of them with reinforce. The trick to this tactic is to tie up as many squads as possible, while your scouts take those important SP and CL. This strategy work best a confusing your enemy, as you jump your ASM from point to point destroying his LP's and de-caping, then send your scouts to cap them. Hope this all helps.

    CrossOrion ASM Variant
    A varient of the ASM build is to queue scout/servitor/scout as opposed to scout/scout/servitor, or servitor/scout/scout, depending on how fast you want your barracks to be up.

    One key note of this tactic is to becareful with your overwatch. If your enemy keeps a calm head and hits tier two while outdancing your ASMs, your in deep shit if you aren't at the same tech level, mass ASMs or not (only 3 squads if you didn't suicide your scouts)

    You /must/ remember to tech to tier 2, a third ASM squad which may be outdanced cost 220 req, and can well cost you extra time into the tier 2 research. Each ASM reinforcing will also put back your tech. Now, bionics and targeters as well as the Chaplain will secure you the game as opposed to just giving you an early advantage. Skull probes are also avaliable in tier 2, but not going to mention powerswords as a hard counter for vehicles, because they might get the axe in the next patch.

    Holy Flamer Build

    Servitor builds barracks while you queue up Scout, Servitor, Scout, Scout. Scout Cap Points while 2nd Servitor Builds a Gen, when you Barracks is done, build the armoury.

    If you feel like it build a LP on a point, just in case. During the Armouries construction, Build 1 Tac Squad. Once the armour is done, upgrade every squad with flamers, when at least 1 for each squad is done, head out and do some purging. This is very risky, and doesn't work. Good for team games though.

    Listening Post Defenseive

    With this tatic you focus on getting those LP to the tier 2, you start by building 2 gen's straight away, then the barracks. While your scouts cap the SP, once thier fully yours, build those LP's as fast as you can and the upgrade them straight away.

    This is risky, but when it works you slingshot yourself into tier 2 really quickly, allowing you to get some hellfire dreads and more out before the enemy has anything to counter.

    For a 2v2 game, use this in combo with the ASM rush.

    Force Commander and Tac Rush

    Follow the standard off the bat SM build (Serivtor 1 builds barracks, while you build scout, servitor, scout) once the barracks is up, go SM, FC, SM, and with any spare rec try to build an LP to give you an eco boast.

    The main strength of this strat is to have you FC tie up squads in CC, while your tac squads and scouts shot them.

    Scout Rush

    The focus of this strat is to get as many scouts out as quickly and over whelm the enemy, start building about 4x scouts. First one caps, maybe second on as well or you can send it straight to the enemy to harass. As soon as all four are out, send them into the enemies base, and attack his capping squads, builders and anything. Continue to build scouts until you think theres enough. The tech up to tier 2.


    peturabo's effective 1v1 race counters

    vs. IG = x2 scouts go for 3 tact squads then fully reinforce, scouts queued up to take map control etc. Focus fire on the command squad(300 HP a piece they die quickly). Then shoot the non commi'd units, then the commi'd units. If you are chasing units down click in front of them not on the unit(Unless your intending to melee them).

    Tier2+ grabs some Melta bombs, bionics, target finders, etc. If he gets 1 basilisk you will need 2 melta bombs at any given time once to kill them. Give your marines heavy bolters. Go for vehicles not apoth's because of Basilisk, id rather face mass sentinels than mass basilisks personally As for choice of vehicles hellfire’s are sm’s best vehicles especially en masse that missile knock.

    Vs. Orks:- On certain maps shoota rush is unbeatable such as Tiboraxx AND gorhael crater because he can have 2 fully reinforced shootas plus fat mek, in your base when you have 1 FC+1 sm squad. So yeah in this MU I’d recommend I’d go for 3 scout squads FC->sm squad-> sm squad-> sm squad. Then gets some flamers tech up, etc.

    At Tier 2 get apothecaries, chappy give your units plasma guns or heavy bolters w/ frag grenades. Just spam skull probes to beat down vehicles But yes apothecaries are the pawn in this MU u must get them!!!

    vs. Chaos:- go 3 scouts, cap outer points first, queue up infiltrate and go to infiltrate harass past the csm unit or raptors, kill heretics and de-cap a point if you can do not have your scout squads more than 2 members! it such a waste of money imho because this is only a minor harassment to give u the little eco edge. Don’t worry about cultists when Lord shows up just get your a$$ out of there cause lord pistol will rape scouts, don’t scout rush chaos it sucks. Mass tactical owns every strategy that Chaos can do the hardest strat they can do is mass csm rush, just hold back get equal squads reinforce out micro& pawn.

    Get map control, etc mass tactical squads, with FC. FC should always be unattached and look for a csm squad to engage. If he goes raptors first focus fire on the raptors they die fast under focused fire. Keep your scouts as support because they do more damage than a tactical bolter. If the csm focus fire on them just move them away and when he stops shooting at them just hit your stop key(Q on default keys). Tact’s focus fire on the weakest unit FC should melee one unit, if CL comes near him move Fc away.

    1 for 1 tact’s beat chaos marines but you don’t get 10 man squads so don’t engage him till u get FC+ 1 or 2 tact’s, fully reinforce, concentrate on micro, use stop hotkey a lot, etc. Tier2 it doesn’t really matter what you you have win, id recommend mass marines with apothecaries, chaplain, frag grenades plasma guns& missiles.

    Vs. Eldar = 2 scouts, asm spam, I wouldn’t worry too much about hero plasma pistol here. Just harass any units capping look for any cheeky de-caps before he can get LPs put down. I’ve beaten waR|Asdrubael like every time I play him doing this(Not really worth uploading because it doesn’t show anything new), its not very hard when you get Tier 2 add tactical squads with plasma guns or heavy bolters frag grenades and apothecaries, those units of asm you built up in Tier1 counter everything. Build 1 asm per every reaper squad they build or 1 asm per every banshee squad.

    Vs. SM = Flat& boring really, not as bad vs. I though. 3 scouts Fc first, tact mass, mass tact’s>asm. If he goes pp just engage the FC in melee. Like your game with chaos leave FC unattached, melee squad move if other hero close you down meanwhile mass tact’s focus fire on the weakest unit.

    Tier 2 SM v SM the winner is the guy who builds the most Hellfire dreadnoughts, spammed probes own vehicles but hellfire’s. My mirrors with Youlian and Raven taught me this ^_^


    Multiple Enemies 2v2-4v4 Strategies

    sypher_diaz/general moon's Hard Tech

    Build order:

    Servitor 1 builds gen
    At HQ queue servitor
    3x scouts

    Scouts cap points then move off to harass

    Second servitor builds barracks, shift command first servitor to help with barracks once the power is finished.

    As soon as the barracks is up build the armory, this build means the second the armory is up you have enough req and power to click the tier 2 upgraded right away.

    While the tier 2 research is going, build LP's on your capped points and if possible upgrade them to LP2

    Once in tier 2 get a machine pit up and build a hellfire dread right away. The hellfire will keep any infantry attacks down as they have a nice knock down on their rockets.

    Hellfire and plasma scouts are one of the best anti zerker combos I know of in tier 2.

    Then build more troops or if you and your team are on top, you can hard tech even further to tier 3 and then stomp the enemy completely.

    This build is heavily reliant on your allies being able to hold off the enemy attacks until you get out the more powerful tier 2 units. This tech does not hold out well against rushes. So is best used on the larger maps.

    For smaller maps I suggest going for the normal 1v1 build, as you can normally tech up quite nicely while harassing the enemy and keeping them on the back foot.

    That’s all for now, ill come back and update/add more if people feel this is useful

    Once a team game has got to tier 4, fire prisms (FP) can become an issue which needs dealing with. As SM I find one of the best methods of dealing with them is to make them fight in their own base.

    Get a land raider and max your vehicle pop out with predators. Make sure you have at least 2 barracks with assault terminators (AT's) on over watch.

    Charge the vehicles at the Eldar base, land raider in front, with preds behind, and as soon as you start to take prism fire, do machine spirit on your land raider, which will halve the damage taken and make it last longer. Get all your preds and your land raider focus firing on each fire prism in turn by using the shift command.

    Some people say "spead out your vehicles so they don’t take splash damage from the prisms.", now this is all well and good in theory, but in a real fight, you wont have time. So don’t worry about that, what I suggest you do, is start deep striking (DS) your assault terminators right behind the line of prisms. The AT's will stun the prisms and stop them from firing, while you batter the living hell out of them. This means that you should be winning, req will be tight from constant reinforcing, but if you micro you AT's and keep one squad on each FP, (sometimes if your lucky a squad will spread out and stun more than one prism) you should be able to start going for buildings as well.

    A trick I like to use is to put my chaplain in the orbital relay and then DS him in along with the terminators to spot cloaked buildings and also he has a large healing aura which will make your AT's last that bit longer

    Tricks of the Space Marine Trade
    by sypher_diaz/general_moon

    Against Eldar, where reaper rush is very popular, get your scouts on over watch (right click the reinforce button) and this will keep them reinforcing as they are killed. Then by pressing the Z key and then left clicking on the reapers, send you scout into CC (close combat) with the reaper squads. One scout squad per reaper squad, as the scouts are fast, and have moving through cover bonuses, they can keep up with the reapers, and it stops the reapers dancing away from you and then shooting at your other troops. Then you can either use the FC PP to pick off the reapers or focus fire from other scout squads and SM squads.

    FC is a good hero, but he can have a hard time of it going toe to toe with other commander units. So try to attach him to a scout squad to give him the edge over a lone chaos lord (CL) which would otherwise beat him 1 on 1

    Get word of the emperor research from the sacred artifact, and attach the librarian to an AT or regular termie squad. You will be able to load them into the barracks, and he wills DS along with the termie squad. Once all your squads are down, do words of the emperor, now your squads can’t die for a limited period of time. Be aware that when you attach the librarian or any other commander unit to an AT squad, that squad will loose their stun ability (makes a huge difference). If you want to use WOTE with an AT squad, be sure to detach the librarian when the spell wears out.


    When you have a lul in battle DS your termies next to your own barracks, as you can fully reinforce them to a squad of 8, then put them back in the barracks for DS, this is also a handy way to DS hero units without taking up space in the orbital relay.

    FC "suicide bomb" this is cheap, but it’s effective. Put your FC into the relay and get a unit to spot enemy base (cloaked scouts and skull probes work well) Draw the enemy army off using tanks and main force of infantry, and then DS the FC into the enemy base and orbital bombard (OB) the enemy HQ. If they lose their HQ they can no longer build any tier 2/3 buildings or addon for their Aspect and Support Portals, But if they've already bought those addons, then they can still build them. Is sometimes worth having a termie squad or rocket marine squad to DS in to finish the job should the building survive.

    SM squads: always upgrade the heavy weapons so that there is only one type in any one squad. e.g. 5 missile launchers (ML) or 5 plasma guns. As you want to target vehicles with the ML and infantry with the plasma, if you mix heavy weapons in squads, you end up shooting some plasma at vehicles which is a waste.

    In my unit tips section i mentioned the suicide bomb tactic used by SM. In big team games you are almost always going to be facing another SM player, so heres a tip in the later teiers for avoiding the suicide bomb. Once you reach tier 3, or even while in tier 2 if your enemy has out teched you, build a turret and upgrade it to a rocket turret.

    "only noobs build turrets!!" i hear you cry! well in the early game yes, turrets are a disaster, but in tier 3 they can really save your arse. This is because the turrets have a knock down effect, and also outrange the OB, so when the FC DS in and trys to OB he will be knocked down, and will be unable to use the ability. This will buy you enough time to get some troops back to kill him before he manages to get your HQ. If you have lots of spare req, i find 3 rocket turrets at different corners of your HQ give max protection.

    To help in this technique of protection, as some players get into the habbit of DS a dread in before the FC to draw fire, remember you can target your turrets manually by pressing "A"
    then selecting the target you want them to attack. This is usefull as any turrets will auto target the first thing that they see, and you dont want them wasting shots on a dread when the FC is around.

    Another tip or thing to think about is that any OB already in effect will be stopped instantly if the FC who cast it is killed. So if you get an OB off in an enemy base, with a FC on low health, get him attached to a squad fast so they cant focus fire on him.

    When sending tanks in against FP its obviously going to be a tough fight, dont waste that extra 2 pop on a dread. Buy rhinos.......again i hear the noob acusations. Well hear me out. Rhinos have an ability called smoke grenades, which gives any group of units its cast over a 50% cover bonus. So its awesome when you dont want to be taking all that splash damage from the FP's. Cast the smoke grenades on your tanks, and watch as your damage halves! giving you ample time to kick the shit out of those pesky prisms! Also if you feel a bit devil may care, you can transport something in them as well.

    Unsure if this has already been mentioned so ill put it in anyway while im here. But when a chaos player uses mass oblitorators on you, build a couple of whirlwinds (WW) and target them. The oblitz will spend so long on thier arses that they wont be able to jog around and kill you. WW are also an excelent counter to AT's

    PheonixIgnite's General Tips

    General Tips:
    -You don't always need the FC. A lot of the time you are better off saving the req & pow for getting to T2. Go for the Chaplain instead.
    -Don't use up too much req in T1 reinforcing and buying heavy weaps, again you're better off with the T2 upgrades.
    -Don't go overboard with the vehicles, you should always have proper infantry back up. Even dreds can't tie up a whole army, if a few squads are left to keep them busy then the rest of the army can move on and cause trouble for you elsewhere. You would be surprise how well you can do without building a single vehicle.

    Scouts:
    Do your best to get these guys into T2. If you are going for ASM's you can really benefit from the ranged support, especially in tight quarters. You'll probably have the most success with plasma and after you've gotten the other armoury upgrades, get the heavy weap upgrade and you can tear through heavy inf.
    If you get far enough, you can attach Apoths for extra healing (you should already have the chappy out).

    Disruption is your friend:
    Especially against pesky ranged troups like IG and Eldar. Use hellfires and WWs knock around 'free' squads (especially IG GLs/Karsyrs).

    ATs(Dreds):
    -As an alternate to focusing on the HQ, try deep striking near plasma gens and weaker supply buildings. You goal is to disrupt the eco and tech as much as possible so the opp can't retaliate. Most important for this strat is to micro the ATs so they don't get tied up in fights with INF of Vehicles, they can take a lot of punishment so the building will go before they do.
    -Draw out your opponents as much as you can before deep striking. ATs and dreds are slow so you want to pick their targets carefully. Aim to tie up vehicles and important squads. Also, only DS as much as you need to since it can be a long slow walk for them to get anywhere after the fight.
    -Spread out a bit. Look for small pockets in the enemy lines where you can cause trouble. Don't put them in the middle of a huge army, just somewhere where they can disrupt the opponent's micro. The best benefit of this is they can't focus fire on one area or tie up your ATs as easily.
    -ATs are a good fire and forget weapon(to a point), especially when reinforced and dropped. Opponents mostly have to react to ATs so use that to your advantage. If they start dancing some of their squads, make the rest of their army pay.
    -Pick your fights against CC squads. ATs can win a lot of the time against other CC units, but you'll take a lot of losses doing so. You can get a lot more bang for your buck by tying up ranged squads, vehicles and by taking out buildings. The only time you should really take on CC squads is when you need a meet shield or you don't have another choice.

    One more point about picking your offensive targets (base wise). Remember that by taking out LPs and Plasma gens, you hurt their entire team's eco. If you can manage, it's handy to have a scout squad decapping as you fight. Doing this well can really swing a game's momentum.

    Controversial:
    -Most people will tell you not to but under special circumstances, I don't mind mixing heavy weapons in tac squads (with the heavy weapons upgrade). For short range fights, i'll equip 2 flamers and 3 plasma. Medium range, 2-3 plasma and 2-3 HB (HBs are strong but easy to disrupt, this should allow you to dance more easily). For long range fights I may mix 2 MLs in with HBs to be a bit more effective against vehicles.
    This stat may be effective in team/high req games. You probably shouldn't set up more than a few of your squads like this though. When you do do this, you'll probably have the best luck setting hotkeys for those squads so you can make sure they are in the correct role.

    If you want to get better use out of the FC and Chap's auras, get the PP upgrade and set their stance to ranged. I find that they tend to stay out of trouble longer this way, so you can get more time out of their abilities. If you are having trouble with a CC mass getting into your Ranged squads, change their stance back to melee. You can do this with the librarian as well, but his PP damage is lower, he doesn't have any auras and his disruption AOE attacks are good for helping out your CC troops. You probably want to leave the lib on melee unless he's low on hp, then you can pull him back on ranged the healing auras will fix him.

    Space Marine Hot Keys

    Code:
    -- BUILDINGS FOR MARINES
    	marine_hq			= 	"S"
    	marine_artefact			=	"A"
    	marine_armoury			= 	"R"
    	marine_chapel			=	"C"
    	marine_generator		= 	"P"
    	marine_listening_post		=	"L"
    	marine_orbital_relay		= 	"O"
    	marine_temp_drop_building	=	"D"
    	marine_thermo_generator		= 	"T"
    	marine_bolter_turret		=	"H"
    	marine_machine_cult		=	"M"
    	marine_mine_field		=	"I"
    
    
    -- TROOPERS FOR MARINES
    	marine_servitor			=	"S"
    	marine_dreadnought		=	"D"
    	marine_dreadnought_hellfire	=	"H"
    	marine_force_commander		=	"F"
    	marine_land_speeder		=	"L"
    	marine_librarian		=	"L"
    	marine_skull_probe		=	"S"
    	marine_scout			=	"M"
    	marine_apothecary		=	"A"
    	marine_assault_marine		=	"A"
    	marine_sergeant			=	"L"
    	marine_space_marine		=	"S"
    	marine_terminator		=	"T"
    	marine_assault_terminator	=	"R"
    	marine_land_raider		=	"R"
    	marine_predator			=	"P"
    	marine_rhino			=	"T"
    	marine_whirlwind		=	"W"
    
    
    -- WEAPON UPGRADES FOR MARINES
    	marine_assault_cannon		=	"C"
    	marine_flamer			=	"F"
    	marine_heavy_flamer		=	"F"
    	marine_heavy_bolter		=	"H"
    	marine_lascannon_1		=	"L"
    	marine_lascannon_2		=	"S"
    	marine_lascannon_twin		=	"W"
    	marine_missile_launcher		=	"M"
    	marine_plasma_gun		=	"P"
    	marine_sniper_rifle		=	"S"
    	marine_missile_launcher_turret 	= 	"U"
    
    
    -- RESEARCH FOR MARINES
    	marine_accuracy_research_1	=	"T"
    	marine_accuracy_research_2	=	"T"
    	marine_force_commander_research_1=	"F"
    	marine_force_commander_research_2=	"F"
    	marine_daemon_hammer_research	=	"D"
    	marine_frag_grenade_research	=	"G"
    	marine_health_research_1	=	"B"
    	marine_health_research_2	=	"B"
            marine_commander_health_research_1	=	"P"
    	marine_commander_health_research_2=	"P"
    	marine_librarian_research_1	=	"B"
    	marine_librarian_research_2	=	"B"
    	marine_max_weapons_research	=	"D"
    	marine_melta_bomb_research	=	"M"
    	marine_power_research_1		=	"U"
    	marine_power_research_2		=	"U"
    	marine_requisition_research_1	=	"E"
    	marine_requisition_research_2	=	"E"
    	marine_scout_infiltration_research=	"C"
    	marine_smoke_launcher_research	=	"S"
    	marine_squad_cap_research	=	"I"
    	marine_vehicle_cap_research	=	"V"
    	marine__melee_research_1	=	"P"
    Space Marine Tech Tree Created By Sajuur from the Dawn of War FAQ


    Special Thanks to...
    sypher_diaz
    Peturabo
    Decoupler
    Darkstorm
    CrossOrion
    SageBR
    Sajuur
    PheonixIgnite
    Akranadas
    Dawn of War Community
    Space Marine Players
    People that lost to space marine players, you've been a big help
    And anyone else I forgot.


    --All Game Strategies as of an Auto match standard, so no quick start or High Rec---

    --This is still incomplete, and is pending further support from the community, so post your strategies and build orders--
    --Updated 24/4/06; Corrected Spelling, Added Hot Keys--

    ---Comments are welcomed---
    Last edited by Akranadas; 27th Apr 06 at 10:08 AM. Reason: General Update

  2. #2
    Darkstorm
    Guest
    *standing ovation*

    Excellent! I wish this sucker was around when I first came online with WA a few months ago. With the exception of lack of proof-reading (spell check + proper highlighting of topic headlines, but it's a rough draft so meh), this is a stellar SM guide for WA 1.41.

    Suggestions:

    * Add an "Advanced Strategies" section and list some of the faves of the high-ranking players (scout rush and 2v2 sniper-assist should go here).

    * Add Skull Probe to unit listing, otherwise I'll have to ask SMJ to berate you on the effectiveness of probage.

    * Add a team-up strat section. I'm sort of on the fence with this one, as there are quite a few 2v2 strats that can be mixed and matched. Open to debate.

    All I can think of at the moment....probably because this guide is SO DAMN GOOD. Again, thanks to the mods for spear-heading this and to the community.

  3. #3
    sypher_diaz
    Guest

    Update on some SM tips by General_Moon

    I didnt know whether to just update my original guide, or whether that would be missed, so im posting it here in case you or anyone else is interested.

    In my unit tips section i mentioned the suicide bomb tactic used by SM. In big team games you are almost always going to be facing another SM player, so heres a tip in the later teiers for avoiding the suicide bomb. Once you reach tier 3, or even while in tier 2 if your enemy has out teched you, build a turret and upgrade it to a rocket turret.

    "only noobs build turrets!!" i hear you cry! well in the early game yes, turrets are a disaster, but in tier 3 they can really save your arse. This is because the turrets have a knock down effect, and also outrange the OB, so when the FC DS in and trys to OB he will be knocked down, and will be unable to use the ability. This will buy you enough time to get some troops back to kill him before he manages to get your HQ. If you have lots of spare req, i find 3 rocket turrets at different corners of your HQ give max protection.

    To help in this technique of protection, as some players get into the habbit of DS a dread in before the FC to draw fire, remember you can target your turrets manually by pressing "A"
    then selecting the target you want them to attack. This is usefull as any turrets will auto target the first thing that they see, and you dont want them wasting shots on a dread when the FC is around.

    Another tip or thing to think about is that any OB already in effect will be stopped instantly if the FC who cast it is killed. So if you get an OB off in an enemy base, with a FC on low health, get him attached to a squad fast so they cant focus fire on him.

    When sending tanks in against FP its obviously going to be a tough fight, dont waste that extra 2 pop on a dread. Buy rhinos.......again i hear the noob acusations. Well hear me out. Rhinos have an ability called smoke grenades, which gives any group of units its cast over a 50% cover bonus. So its awesome when you dont want to be taking all that splash damage from the FP's. Cast the smoke grenades on your tanks, and watch as your damage halves! giving you ample time to kick the shit out of those pesky prisms! Also if you feel a bit devil may care, you can transport something in them as well.


    Unsure if this has already been mentioned so ill put it in anyway while im here. But when a chaos player uses mass oblitorators on you, build a couple of whirlwinds (WW) and target them. The oblitz will spend so long on thier arses that they wont be able to jog around and kill you. WW are also an excelent counter to AT's

  4. #4
    Member Dryden's Avatar
    Join Date
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    If they lose their HQ they can no longer build any tier 2/3 units.
    I tried once to destroy HQ of my SM enemy trying to stop AT spam. It didn't help.
    So could you verify this information, please?

  5. #5
    You can produce terminators even without the HQ so long as you have the orbital relay.

    A varient of the ASM build is to queue scout/servitor/scout as opposed to scout/scout/servitor, or servitor/scout/scout, depending on how fast you want your barracks to be up.

    One key note of this tactic is to becareful with your overwatch. If your enemy keeps a calm head and hits tier two while outdancing your ASMs, your in deep shit if you aren't at the same tech level, mass ASMs or not (only 3 squads if you didn't suicide your scouts)

    You /must/ remember to tech to tier 2, a third ASM squad which may be outdanced cost 220 req, and can well cost you extra time into the tier 2 research. Each ASM reinforcing will also put back your tech. Now, bionics and targeters as well as the Chaplain will secure you the game as opposed to just giving you an early advantage. Skull probes are also avaliable in tier 2, but not going to mention powerswords as a hard counter for vehicles, because they might get the axe in the next patch.
    I am NOT crossOnion
    Originally From MooFreaky
    Just because a n00b can't pick up the army and use it does not make it weak!!

  6. #6
    sypher_diaz
    Guest
    i have posted some updates and some additional counters in this thread already that dont seem to have made it in. You might have chosen to omit them, but just in case you just missed them im pointing them out.

  7. #7
    Member Dryden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    in Russia among polar bears wearing ushankas drinking vodka and playing balalaikas
    Quote Originally Posted by Akranadas
    @ sypher_diaz, added, just forgot it

    @Dryden, Wheres that?
    Well, some browsers allow seaching on page

    Tricks of the Space Marine Trade
    by sypher_diaz/general_moon
    ...
    ...
    If they lose their HQ they can no longer build any tier 2/3 units.

    Quote Originally Posted by sypher_diaz
    he will have been able to reinforce his current squads, but i dont think he could have built any new squads. Unless they are already qued up, in which case they will still build.

    As for eldar, if they lose either the HQ or the SS they lose the ability to build FP, which are the major problem to face off against. To point out a disgusting imba of eldar while im at it, they can just build a new SS and dont need to redo the research. Which is out of order considering all of the other races have to start from scratch with a new HQ

    its in my initial post
    I read ur post though didn't answer.
    But I asked my opponent about this time and he said that losing HQ didn't prevent him from building AT.

    At least u cant argue that WL is tier2 and eldar can build it without HQ
    Though maybe one wouldnt be able to build Support Portal...

  8. #8
    I'll add in a few more tips.

    General Tips:
    -You don't always need the FC. A lot of the time you are better off saving the req & pow for getting to T2. Go for the Chaplain instead.
    -Don't use up too much req in T1 reinforcing and buying heavy weaps, again you're better off with the T2 upgrades.
    -Don't go overboard with the vehicles, you should always have proper infantry back up. Even dreds can't tie up a whole army, if a few squads are left to keep them busy then the rest of the army can move on and cause trouble for you elsewhere. You would be surprise how well you can do without building a single vehicle.

    Scouts:
    Do your best to get these guys into T2. If you are going for ASM's you can really benefit from the ranged support, especially in tight quarters. You'll probably have the most success with plasma and after you've gotten the other armoury upgrades, get the heavy weap upgrade and you can tear through heavy inf.
    If you get far enough, you can attach Apoths for extra healing (you should already have the chappy out).

    Disruption is your friend:
    Especially against pesky ranged troups like IG and Eldar. Use hellfires and WWs knock around 'free' squads (especially IG GLs/Karsyrs).

    ATs(Dreds):
    -As an alternate to focusing on the HQ, try deep striking near plasma gens and weaker supply buildings. You goal is to disrupt the eco and tech as much as possible so the opp can't retaliate. Most important for this strat is to micro the ATs so they don't get tied up in fights with INF of Vehicles, they can take a lot of punishment so the building will go before they do.
    -Draw out your opponents as much as you can before deep striking. ATs and dreds are slow so you want to pick their targets carefully. Aim to tie up vehicles and important squads. Also, only DS as much as you need to since it can be a long slow walk for them to get anywhere after the fight.
    -Spread out a bit. Look for small pockets in the enemy lines where you can cause trouble. Don't put them in the middle of a huge army, just somewhere where they can disrupt the opponent's micro. The best benefit of this is they can't focus fire on one area or tie up your ATs as easily.
    -ATs are a good fire and forget weapon(to a point), especially when reinforced and dropped. Opponents mostly have to react to ATs so use that to your advantage. If they start dancing some of their squads, make the rest of their army pay.
    -Pick your fights against CC squads. ATs can win a lot of the time against other CC units, but you'll take a lot of losses doing so. You can get a lot more bang for your buck by tying up ranged squads, vehicles and by taking out buildings. The only time you should really take on CC squads is when you need a meet shield or you don't have another choice.

    Controversial:
    -Most people will tell you not to but under special circumstances, I don't mind mixing heavy weapons in tac squads (with the heavy weapons upgrade). For short range fights, i'll equip 2 flamers and 3 plasma. Medium range, 2-3 plasma and 2-3 HB (HBs are strong but easy to disrupt, this should allow you to dance more easily). For long range fights I may mix 2 MLs in with HBs to be a bit more effective against vehicles.
    This stat may be effective in team/high req games. You probably shouldn't set up more than a few of your squads like this though. When you do do this, you'll probably have the best luck setting hotkeys for those squads so you can make sure they are in the correct role.

    That's all I can think of for now.
    ---

  9. #9
    Member Dryden's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akranadas
    Yes It will be going into the Tactica Imperialis once the community and I think its right.



    Nice tips there, Added in the Tips section.


    So what do you guys think is it ready for the Tactica?
    correct this pliz, this info can ruin the whole game because of wrong target:
    Tricks of the Space Marine Trade
    by sypher_diaz/general_moon

    If they lose their HQ they can no longer build any tier 2/3 units.

    as we already discussed one can build t2\3 units though perhaps cant build t2\3 buildings and addons after losing HQ

  10. #10
    As a small addition to
    Tricks of the Space Marine Trade
    by sypher_diaz/general_moon
    the following might be added to the section on attaching the lib to an AT squad and using wote:

    Be aware that when you attach the librarian or any other commander unit to an AT squad, that squad will loose their stun ability (makes a huge difference). If you want to use WOTE with an AT squad, be sure to detach the librarian when the spell wears out.

    This was the case before, but let me know if this has been changed.

  11. #11
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland
    Ok,

    Thank you to everyone who help with this, you've been a great help. I beleive this is as finished as it will be before 1.5, then I will pull it out of the tactia for us to add or take out stuff. Don't worry if you think your post was deleted, I just cleaned this up abit. Now On to the Tactica!

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