The new FI rules are a bad idea

[[Vertigo]]

I don't take it upon myself to start many threads, do a search on started threads by me and you won't find many recent ones. I just wanted to have a chance to give my thoughts on the latest FI rules: are you guys fucking crazy? Nothing says, "we don't care" then "you don't have permission to post in this thread". I don't know the train of thought that made this new ruling possible, but there are a whole lot of problems.

First off, never mind the two new admins. Never mind the new warning system that is supposedly to allow mods and admins to punish member with but a few key strokes. NEVER MIND DYNTHEOS's EXPLICIT WARNING TO REMOVE ACCESS TO MEMBERS THAT SPAM THIS FORUM! Apparently these tools were not sufficient to deal with a problem that I could not see becoming one.

Secondly, by removing access to the basic members of the community you enhance the appearance of a harsh administration run by only those on the "inside". Not all Senior members are helpful and quiet a few have gotten away with things that members could not, I would have like to have posted that in this thread, but I could not because of the lock out! Now there is an elite group of people (Senior Members) on the inside that are the only ones that can "help" or "contribute" to FI discussions. I don't like this since it leaves members like me out in the cold having to watch a system move forward and not being able to response through appropriate channels.

Thirdly, normal members do not readily read the stickies as most Experienced Member, Senior Members, Mods, and Admins should know. You end up making the FI more messy since you will get threads with subject like, "I couldn't post in that thread so I started a new one", or "my response to post X in thread Y by member Z". You now run the risk of having parallel discussion by separate members covering the EXACT SAME GROUNDS AS EACH OTHER!

Fourthly, normal members do contribute to this forum. For example, I would have like to post a good idea I just had in the Reorts and Warning Thread now I cannot do such a thing; instead I have to sit on my suggesting or disregard it completely. By punishing everyone for the sins of a few you remove a large portion of the bad, but also remove the ability for the few good potential Senior Members to contribute to the system! I would like to have the opportunity to contribute my ideas to the discussion in FI, but with one broad sweeping stroke the Administration has locked me, a tolerated member, out of other peoples' threads. I thought I had proven myself worthy of posting my ideas and opinions in FI?

Lastly, though I don't think I am done by far but this will wrap up this post, this is a bit like driving a nail with a wrecking ball. It has no finesse nor does it seem like it was made in the proper judgement that I expected the Administration to have. If you Admins and Mods are tired of closing threads and sending PMs to the offending persons for spaming the FI make me an Admin or Mod with enough power to do it for you. I would be happy to volunteer what little time I have away from work to keep this system open to all members of the community not just the original post, Senior Members, and the Administration. I don't think this is how the boards should be.

[NovaBurn]

I for one understand the need for the new stricter enforcement of the behavior in the FI section as from previous threads and the discussions therein. I don't neccessarily think that all senior members are elitist fucks like myself, but some of us do get out of hand because we think we are high and mighty above the normal peons. I do have to say that some of the "senior members" did not need to be senior members just becaues they begged for a custom avatar and title, but that is besides the point.

The bad post warning point system I forsee as being somewhat ok at catching bad posters, but will eventually get out of control and will be abandoned as it produced too many false positives and has too much upkeep to deal with mainly because of the DoW forum sections. What the issue is with the FI section is when idiots get banned or someone complains about something the thread almost 90% of the time becomes a spam thread making fun of the idiot poster who either calls Cj the spawn of satan or soulblighter the devil incarnate. other times its just commentary on why some idiot was banned, not alot of the content in here is active concern or participation for the status of the forums themselves. It could be that the staff is doing a bang up job and there is nothing really to make note of, or there is a suggestion for the forum that someone feels they should mention here.

You mention that normal members dont read stickies and such as much as senior or admin/mod staff. I don't see how that is relevant as the forum rules and stickies are almost always there to be seen and if someone fraks up because they didn't read it then that is their fault. Yes I haven't read every single one myself, but I do know the forum rules and general etique on here so I know my way around the forums without real need to read them except on the occasion something is changed or updated.

I personally don't have a problem with ANY member bringing ideas to the table or suggestions in threads here so long as they are ideas/suggestions that actually provide some sort of contributing factor to the discussion at hand. That is something that senior and non-senior members alike should have the right to do. Sure the senior members are going to have more insight and sway in their view since they have been here longer, but the simple ability for the member who has been here for 6 months to make a suggestion is paramount to making these forums a nice corner of the internet.

[JAL-18]

I can see both points of view: from the moderation point of view, the last couple of weeks in here have been horrendous in terms of spam. Simply half of some threads would be taken up by posts that were useless. On the other hand, "senior members only" does reek of elitism, since it's a tiny group (less then 1% I think) from the total member base.

If FI were opened up again to all members, I think the senior members could be "jr, jr moderators" for the FI. Since we're the ones that most frequent here, we would catch the troublesome posts faster and give the report system a good work-out It helps the moderators lock in quickly to the posts that need it and gives senior members something to do other then sit there looking important. Problem with this is it requires active participation from our senior members, not all of which even visit here, so it's hard to enforce.

If the FI remains closed, perhaps tell regular members who want to post to PM their ideas to a senior member they've seen active in the thread or the forums to post by proxy? The sr. member will probably already be aware of the issue, and once again that bit of responsibility could come in in that (hopefully) all the "OMFG NAZIS" posts wouldn't even be posted. It forces the member to think things through a bit more carefully now that a filter has been established. Problem with this is some seniors might turn into mini-moderators and refuse to post reasonable ideas. (Although I guess that's solvable by either making a thread or PMing a moderator)

Just my two ideas to try to lighten the moderation load while not turning FI into the Relic boards country club.

[[Vertigo]]

Which was going to be part of my idea to cut down on the abuse of the warning system, JAL-18. I don't think that system should be left in the hands of the common member since it will be abused by someone in the future if only to piss of the Administration. I don't think that all Senior Members visist the FI forums very frequently. My main problem is that you cut off the rest of the community from inputing their ideas. Why don't we just make the GD a Senior Members area only. Take that one step farther and lets make Relic News Forums invite only! That would solve all the spam problems right there.

I want to post my thoughts and ideas in relivant threads as they pop up in FI but now I cannot participate in the discusion and that is frustrating as hell if you have a really good idea. Now if I want to say something in response to a post I have to PM the origonal poster or the people in the discussion. This is how it feels to be out of the loop in the cold?

...the simple ability for the member who has been here for 6 months to make a suggestion is paramount to making these forums a nice corner of the internet.

True, you were a simple member at one point in time were you not, NovaBurn? Not every member is an asshat. I don't like the heavy handed and indiscriminate judgement levied on the entire community in this forum.

[Soulblighter]

[Vertigo] thank you for voicing your concerns, like has been stated elsewhere, its a trial period. We are currently just trying to find a way to clean up this forum and by no means is this new policy set in stone. We are still discussing this issue in the moderator forums and as you can see we are still discussing it here.

I might add that it was not just the regular member that can no longer post in fi but also our jr and sr moderators as well. In this manner we also streamlined how staff can reply to threads, so discussion would be held in private and members would see a more united response from the staff, as to not add confusion.

Again i thank you for your insight and ask for patience has we still hash out details to make this forum run more efficiently.

[Beelzebuddy]

poster who either calls Cj the spawn of satan or soulblighter the devil incarnate

...and?

Keep in mind before you all start foaming that this is setup is on a trial basis only. I honestly don't know why they even bothered, as it should have been clear from the start that the number of users who will bitch and moan that they can no longer bitch and moan outnumber those who would have done so to begin with.

[Edit] Yah, what he said.