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Primarch stats

  1. Tabletop Senior Member  #1
    Professional Gunman Dooks Dizzo's Avatar
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    Primarch stats

    having just read Horus Rising I feel that I am now on intimate terms with the Primarchs.

    I have seen a fair number of threads asking about what Primarch stats would have been or what they might be in future codex's and such.

    For the most part I see a lot of 'OMG Primarch are teh pwn! they would beat down whole armies!!1!!1! and cost 5 million points FTW'

    However after actually getting to read about Primarch in combat and have them described by people who worked and lived with them I have a different feeling on the matter.

    There is no doubt that they were great men, even based against the standards of the super human Space Marines, however I don't think they would even quite be the equivalent to the Night Bringer in terms of fakeness.

    For the most part my guess is that their stat line would look something like this:

    WS:6
    BS:5
    S:5
    T:5
    W:4
    I:6
    A:5
    Ld:10
    Sv:2+*

    *Dependant on gear

    Just as a basis for a stat line before nifty Primarch gear which would give them invulnerable saves, increased
    Strength/Toughness and cool special rules.

    I would also venture to guess that they would have some sort of 'Daemonic Rune' type thing that made them immune to the effects of instant death.

    What does everyone think? Particularly those who have read the novel, am I close to the mark or way off base?

    Please don't get this thread locked...

  2. #2
    Distephano
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    i do not belive this thread is well suited for this forums, it belongs in the tabletop forums not the fluff forums. a mod should move it, not lock it but move to another forum.

    as a side note those stats look horribly underpowered

  3. #3
    Yeah. Sanguinius could take on a Blood THirster singlehandedly. For that, his WS would be mucho high, like above that even of Kharn the Betrayer's, and possibly even a Bloodthirster. Their strength was also legendary. Look at Ferrus Manus, who could, according to legend, move mountains. Others, such as Vulkan, Leman Russ, Angron, and Magnus the Red, would be much more hardcore than those stats would suggest.

  4. #4
    In my day, we made our OWN war Robert Frazer's Avatar
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    This isn't meant to denigrate you in any way, Dooks Dizzo, but this manner of thread has occured several times in the past, and it is a fairly nonsensical one and impossible to discuss in any practical terms as well. Primarchs were the ultimate physical achievement of man - creations who had advanced so far beyond supermen that they were more like demigods and enjoyed powers and abilities only describable as magic. Attempting to force and lever them into the system of Warhammer 40,000 without nerfing and watering down their abilities so much that they'd hardly deserve the title "Primarch" is very much a futile gesture. Additionally, as I recall none of the Primarchs are seen to fight in Horus Rising at all, save Horus's deus ex machina to frazzle the Iron Pyrite Throne in the opening act, and the fact that in the closing section he takes a blow from weapon which kills a Space Marine outright without even flinching.

    However, you've made a good opening at engendering reasonable discussion and - while I don't personally have much confidence that this will occur - I'm willing to leave it open for the time to see if some worthwhile contributions are made to it.
    Last edited by Robert Frazer; 5th May 06 at 1:50 PM.
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  5. Forum Subscriber  #5
    Member Cable's Avatar
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    Didn't the dudes over at Bolter and Chainsword come up with some Primarch rules that had actually been playtested and each Primarch was a great character with unique special rules to call their own?

    -Adam

    EDIT: Here's the link to the B&C rules they made, which are pretty good and balanced if you ask me. Now go read the whole post.

    Sexy hot linkage
    Last edited by Cable; 5th May 06 at 1:18 PM.
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  6. #6

  7. Forum Subscriber  #7
    Member Cable's Avatar
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    Read my post again.

  8. #8
    burbsee
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    I agree with what Robert Frazer says.They are just to powerful to be really used in every day 40k or even mega battles.Maybe if you played some game like 20000 points you could have a primarch on each side.I also would agree with the above on your stats are way off to what i would imagine them to be,they are primarchs!!!

  9. Tabletop Senior Member  #9
    Professional Gunman Dooks Dizzo's Avatar
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    I guess my reasoning for this thread is that GW has finally written official books in which the Primarchs were featured. And in the book that I read they were quite powerful and legendary figures, however they were within the bounds of reason.

    This is a perfect example:
    Look at Ferrus Manus, who could, according to legend, move mountains.
    According to LEGEND, however it is highly unbelievable that a figure made of flesh and blood weighing less than a couple hundred kilo's could move a body of earth and rock weighing millions of kilo's no matter how strong he was.

    It is quite possible to say that the previous fluff that we have gotten on them stems from information 10,000 years old and has increased their prowess to truely mythic proportions when in fact they were terribly powerful, but not beyond the scope of reason.

    In the Horus Rising novel you are getting a direct perspective form someone (the character Loken) who stood side by side with Horus in atleast one battle and acted as one of his chief advisors.

    In the book it was made very appereant that the Primarchs (Dorn, Horus and Sanguinus all made apperances) were of demi god proportions and prowess, however they were still men.

    I guess that I am of the belief that much of what we have been led to believe was false and that the introduction of new fluff will dramatically change the way that we have seen the Primarchs in the past. Possibly even open up opportunities for balanced Primarch characters to show up in games. Maybe doing a 31st millenium style campaign.

    Additionally, as I recall none of the Primarchs are seen to fight in Horus Rising at all, save Horus's deus ex machina to frazzle the Iron Pyrite Throne in the opening act, and the fact that in the closing section he takes a blow from weapon which kills a Space Marine outright without even flinching.
    Sorry, forgot to address this initially. (I could hug you for actually knowing that use of dues ex mechina by the way...)

    I got a feeling for Horus and Sanguinus battling together on Murder pretty well. The fact that 2 primarchs fought together and the campaign still lasted over sixth months was telling to me.

    In the battle that you speak of where Horus takes that hit...pretty easily covered in 40k terms. The Feel No Pain universal rule covers it pretty well to tell the truth. Any character with multiple wounds could have the same reaction and in some cases do in every novel they're featured in.

  10. Tabletop Senior Member  #10
    Fluffy Necromancer Andkat's Avatar
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    Sangy is known to have independently snapped the bakcs of 4 Bloodthirsters on Terra.
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  11. Dawn of War Senior Member  #11
    Antipostmodern Aron_DeTomado's Avatar
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    So give him a "snap back of Blood Thirster" special rule and call it balance
    Then you could give Fulgrim and Night Haunter a "Sekkrit RN fanclub-fanatics" which grants them a WBB role which never fails, representing the multitude of people argueing that it is impossible for someone that awesome to die.
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  12. #12
    Distephano
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    much as i love my favourite primarch, it was only the one. but still valid all the same

    however they were still men.
    not quite as said they are virtually demi-gods.


    however they were within the bounds of reason.
    no they really are not. they are insanely powerful. leman russ took a punch in the face from a power fist and just got knocked out, not to mention said punch was form t he emperor no less. sanguinius, he fought for days in the seige of the emperors palace, he fought non stop the whole time apart from the occasions where he soothed grieviously wounded men. he then personally held the ultimate gate as all the defenders puleld back, he then got jumped by a bloodthirster and had a good fight before apprently being defeated, then i quote:
    Then slowly and painfully the Blood Angel rose and seized the creature, raised it high and broke its back across his knee. Then with a halo of power playing round his head he tossed its broken carcass back amid its followers.
    extract can be read here http://www.student.tue.nl/t/j.c.a.v....t%20on%20Earth

    he defeated a real demi-god, a greater deamon of a chaos god, he proved to be better than them.

  13. #13
    Member DoomKnights's Avatar
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    The stats are too watered down, and don't forget the blood thirster in question was powered by death alround them which counted in the millions easly and yet siggy still broke its back with ease.

  14. #14
    exkon
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    All I have to say:

    "If it can bleed, we can kill it"

    Primarch's can't be so bad ass that they can't be killed:

    Fulgrim vs Robute:

    Ful - "Dude, sorry about bretraying you and the emperor, my bad man. All it gave me was this messed up body and freaky arms."

    Rob - "Its cool man, sorry about hunting you down like a dog and you know...trying to kill you an all. We cool?"

    Ful - "Yeah we cool" *slashes Robute's throat* "In YO FACE SUCKA!!"

  15. #15
    I think probably Perturabo is one of my more favorite Primarchs for what he did to the Imperial Fists and Dorn. It's been written that for 16 YEARS the Fists were completely out of action, while Dorn rebuilt the Chapter.

  16. #16
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    As has been said above...

    Primarchs were seen as Godlike humans, with superhuman abilities. Put that in relative terms... a well trained soldier of Imperial Guard has stats which are basically all 3's. Anything higher is super human.

    Just because we can relate to Godlike Humans, doesn't mean that they are Strength 10 Toughness 10 WS 10 etc, whats to say that a Tyranid Gaunt isn't a SuperNid?

    I'd say if you are happy calling a character a Primarch, and have the possibility and perhaps experience humiliation at having him killed by LasGun fire, then its your choice.

    But if i were to make a Primarch, it would be based around C'Tan stats.

  17. #17
    exkon
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    There's never been really an accurate fluff on how much dmg a Primarch can take:

    I mean Sang was tired after days of fighting

    Alpharius apparently survived a barrage of bolter shells fired by horus and his guard. Which reminds me, are bolter shells like grenades? HOW THE HELL DO YOU SURVIVE MULTLIPLE GRENADES EXPLODING INSIDE YOU?

  18. #18
    You gotta be a Primarch.

  19. #19
    exkon
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    I guess so Blackhart...I guess so...

  20. #20
    Distephano
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    I mean Sang was tired after days of fighting
    was that a pro primarch comment or con?

    cause thats days of fighting the most elite troops chaos can send at you.

  21. #21
    exkon
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    I was just assuming that days fighting wouldn't be harder than overcoming bullets that explode like grenades inside of you.

    But hey whatever, god-like is god-like

  22. #22
    Distephano
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    but alpharius didnt? im sorry im nto sure where this came from, horus shot at him but he dodged the bullets.

  23. #23
    In my day, we made our OWN war Robert Frazer's Avatar
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    Careful everyone, it's becoming rather too chatty in here. Be somewhat more substantial in your posts.

    According to LEGEND, however it is highly unbelievable that a figure made of flesh and blood weighing less than a couple hundred kilo's could move a body of earth and rock weighing millions of kilo's no matter how strong he was.

    It is quite possible to say that the previous fluff that we have gotten on them stems from information 10,000 years old and has increased their prowess to truely mythic proportions when in fact they were terribly powerful, but not beyond the scope of reason.
    A fair point, Dooks, but one thing that you have to bear in mind is that the Primarchs are legend - the beings are infused with myth and it is as integral to their nature as their very bodies themselves. Which man is more King Arthur - the proud and noble lord of fair Camelot and head of a league of chivalrous knights, or a mucky Romano-Briton who probably wasn't even actually present at the battle his fame is supposed to have stemmed from? Which one is more the Trojan War - a heroic and mighty decade-long struggle, waged in the name of soul-resonating ultimate expressions that cause the universe to quiver of Hate, Love, Anger and Justice, with warriors pawns at the hands of Gods, Doom and Destiny... or a gang of bloodthirsty pirates who just shamefully and ignorantly ransacked one of the last few remaining bastions of culture and civilisation in the Bronze Age? These figures of ancient days live on for the way we remember them and sculpt them, and so Robin Hood is the dashing rogue rather than the thieving brigand.

    Similarly, the Primarchs are figures who live far beyond their physical selves - to truly do justice to the concept that is "Primarch" you must incorporate their mythic, otherworldly, fantastic qualities, and that is what renders them difficult for a game which must by needs be reduced to cold, soullness numbers and mechanics.

  24. Tabletop Senior Member  #24
    Professional Gunman Dooks Dizzo's Avatar
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    Hmmm, well I am glad that I made a point.

    I guess the point of this thread is that with the release of the new novels some of the Primarch's Mythical status is being removed. For me at least.

    But as opposed to that being a negative I see it as very positive. I see them as noble mortal figures which make them likable and interesting to me. Far more so than 'he r teh pwn'.

    Another counter point to the supra badass Primarch supporters, Angron got his ass handed to him by a squad of Grey Knights.

    As for Sangy killing the Blood Thirster, I have no doubt anywhere in my brain that he was an utter badass but sadly he is not the only one to have killed a Blood Thirster. I have a Chaplain who accomplished the same feat, as well as a Dreadnought who finished one off. And I am sure they have been beaten down in plenty of other games.

    Now the statline I posted might not seem all that great but in conjunction with weapons/wargear that possibly increase strength, ignore armor/invulnerable saves a genaric Primarch would be plenty of a match for yon Bloodthirster.

    Also simple special rules like being immune to instant kill or regeneration/feel no pain are easy to add and account for points wise.

  25. #25
    Sangy had been fighting demons non-stop for days, if not weeks and months, and when he was tired as hell, he just casually broke a Bloodthirster in half and ran away. Primarchs are quite powerful, though many times the reason why they appear that way is due to their ability to learn so quickly-before puberty they can learn everything a culture has to offer. If their minds work that quickly, imagine how quickly they could deduce an attacker's patterns and cut them to pieces.
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  26. #26
    Member DougyM's Avatar
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    The tt game is ridiculously ballanced when you compare it to fluff, marines getting taken out by a few gaurdsmen, dreads getting taken out fairly easy etc....

    the two mediums are so radicly different you cannot provide fluff examples and expect that to carry over into TT.


    plainly speaking, if primarchs ever become TT legal the entire marine army will consist of one model and the enemy will probably be allowed a 10,000 point army.

  27. Forum Subscriber  #27
    Member Cable's Avatar
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    Another counter point to the supra badass Primarch supporters, Angron got his ass handed to him by a squad of Grey Knights.
    Um... no. It took over one hundred Grey Knights, including a lot of GK Terminators to bring Angron down. And even then they all died.

  28. #28
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    Quote:
    Another counter point to the supra badass Primarch supporters, Angron got his ass handed to him by a squad of Grey Knights.


    Um... no. It took over one hundred Grey Knights, including a lot of GK Terminators to bring Angron down. And even then they all died.
    I think you've got it wrong, it took the grandmaster to defeat angron, not 100 terminators, they were busy figting the blood thirsters, and grandmaster did most of the fighting, and eventually 5 survived, 5 or more or less at least.

    And sangy did not 'casually' break that bloodthirsters back, he was thrown to the ground and was badly hurt, i would guess it took a fair amount of effort.

    I have to say though, their strength seems to be a little low, perhaps have it so that its the same as a bloodthirster, but its pretty balanced, maybe a better weapon skill as surely they could fight batter then genestealers, but overall i think the stats are pretty good, maybe a really good invulnerable save as well. Special rules are a good idea as well.
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  29. #29
    Distephano
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    but he did, yes he got slammed into the ground, but then he just stood up, grabbed it and broke it back across his knee, sounds pretty damn casual to me. angron hardly got his asss handed to him, the amoutn fo power aureulian needed drained the life out of a load of grey knights and even then it could be argued angron was weaker because of the chaos infulence slipping from the world. as said you cannot relate fluff into TT at all, in fluff their is no way one lowly conscript with a lasgun could kill a bloodthrister, but in TT it could happen. and its been said this bloodthirster would have been even more powerul than normal because of the sheer ammount of chaos there.

  30. #30
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    As has been said before, to bring a Primarch into the game would severely unbalance things. Probably only feasible in, quite literally, a 10,000pt and above battle.

    The Primarchs would be stupidly overpowered compared to our lowely troops, yet all we have to go on is fluff - people writing in awe and bulling their primarchs to be something of godlike proportions.

    What will have probably happened will be chinese whispers.

    NightHaunter swam in a lake !

    NightHaunter swam in a lake near a volcano!


    NightHaunter swam in a lake near a volcano before he could walk!


    NightHaunter swam in a lake near an active volcano before he could walk!


    NightHaunter swam in a lava lake before he could walk!

  31. Dawn of War Senior Member  #31
    Antipostmodern Aron_DeTomado's Avatar
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    Err, my post somehow got deleted(by me).
    What I said was basicly that Angron didn't die, instead getting banished for a century, and that Night Haunter swam in lava before he could walk. Which he did, acording to the source I've read(which I'm not going to try to find because I can't remember where it was :/ )

  32. #32
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    Yes im not saying you made it up, but the fluff encompasses the myth.
    So by saying that sanguinius could fly, snap a BT's back, or NightHaunter took a dip in a pool of lava, is actually intended to be hearsay and chinese whispers passed down through the imperium to make the denizens of the Imperium feel like they are something special, and the Marines are super duper duper human.

    But that may not be the case, the Primarchs might have just been good soldiers or good leaders, as for the Emperor, an influential Psyker and politician perhaps? who is to know.

  33. #33
    Member Sheep's Avatar
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    You make a good point there, we have been lead to believe that the primarchs are god like (well at least i think they are). This is all suspicion whos to say that they are god like? Sure the blood angles primarch snapped the back of a bloodthirster, but that happened millenia ago, and noone from that time has survived or if they have, then they have said nothing to prove any of the primarches are god like, so i guees this is alot of speculation.

    I'd still like to think they were gifted soldiers and leaders though as they were chosen by the emperor, and were good enough to command legion of super humans. I would have to say though, information may have been passed down to say that they are god like, this could be true or wrong.

  34. Tabletop Senior Member  #34
    Professional Gunman Dooks Dizzo's Avatar
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    Probably only feasible in, quite literally, a 10,000pt and above battle.
    You migh tthink so, until you consider things like the Night Bringer, the living embodiment of a God (And that's hard fact) for a smooth 360 points. Or the Avatar of Khaine who you would think would own ass but instead isn't all that hot.

    How's this: WS8 S6

    That would bring them online with some of the toughest and most skilled things in 40k.

  35. #35
    The only living proof you have of the Primarch's superiority is the fact that they were superior to their Marines, and the Marines in turn are superior to you. The symmetry of having a more powerful leader over less powerful minions is appealing, especially when compared to organized religion, where a more powerful entity rules over the less powerful. Understanding that aesthetic, the Primarch's ability is not questioned.

    You could question the Primarch's ability, but then again IA will tell you a great many things. Mortarion was able to live in a toxic climate as a child, Kurze survived a crash into the planet's crust and was able to walk to safety as a baby, Sanguinius was able to survive in a radioactive wasteland without safety equipment (pods don't come with RadAway).

    There's only so much you can "dismiss" as disinformation in 40k.

  36. Tabletop Senior Member  #36
    Professional Gunman Dooks Dizzo's Avatar
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    I feel that slowly but surely people are begining to come to my side....

  37. #37
    Distephano
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    soem maybe, but me im still with the others on their ledgendary status. you cannot put them on the TT unless it was an inquisitor style game. ferrus manus, yes he may not have been able to lift mountains(or maybe he could) but he was strong to god like properties. we have solid facts of how strong they were its not ledgend, myth or word of mouth.

  38. #38
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    There are no facts if they do not exist to this day and able to be fielded in a game im afraid!
    Just because an Eversor Assassin in the 2nd ed codex said he was the greatest CC unit the imperium had. Yet he was barely equal to a tooled up HQ choice of any army.

    The imperium is all about fear and living in the past (heresy is inventing new ideas, how wrong is that?!).
    The Emperor was a great person in the past, yes he -might- have been, but hes a corpse now. Yet they worship him, when all he was was a leader and a psyker. The history of the emperor, tribal mystics coming together, is just hearsay, there is no proof, just what the emperor said.

    Terra having the best defense - hearsay, nobody has tried the defenses.

    Grey Knights being the greatest warriors the imperium has - the imperium obviously forget to mention that they die just as easily as Marines and are just-to-say better than a Marine.

    I could go on forever, but the Imperium is what the majority of Fluff readers can relate to, with it being Earth, Mars etc, and with humankind as we are all familiar with ( i hope) comes the dark art of 'bulling ones self up'. Saying you've got an older brother against a bully ; lying at an interview that you can work a piece of software etc.

    Imperium is sadly, a democratic army run on fear, not godlike figures that existed, but merely manipulative ones.

    ./end devils advocate mode

  39. Dawn of War Senior Member  #39
    Antipostmodern Aron_DeTomado's Avatar
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    You know, it would really help your credibility if you didn't make crap up.
    Tha Emperor was not "just a psyker", he's been delivering the souls of humanity from the Dark Gods for 50'000 years. He was not just a leader, but the positively the greatest genius and scientist in the history of Man: He invented the Primarchs, a feat many people underestimate.

    And the Imperium is not a democracy.

  40. #40
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    I took you seriously until you said this...

    And the Imperium is not a democracy.

  41. #41
    Sword Munkeh in Spaaaace Sword_Monkey's Avatar
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    ...Well its not, its a dictatorship, fascistic, and corrupt, based on religious zeal. Its all the things you really don't want in a system and yet it works quite well on the scale it is forced to run on.

    Democracy would be were the govenment is elected by the general populus, The Empy is not relly ina position to rule and the High Lords of Terra don't give a crap if the average citizen on the street wants him in power or not.

    The entire system should of been run by the Empy and his Primarchs, if they weren't fighting they were politicising, they have very good minds and are designed not to be as weak-minded as corruptable humans, but even that was disproved.

    There are so many special rules that Primarchs should have in common too, frankly their strength should make them ignore armour saves like a Broodlord, their Leadership should be available for use by the entire army on the board, including fearlessness. True Grit for all of them, no insta death of course, all of their gear is going to be master-crafted by the best artificers if not by themselves.

    Is Groundzero an indoctrinated Commy? Cos he doesn't know what Democracy is.

  42. #42
    Truth is relative....especially when it comes to a fantasy tabletop game set 40000 years in the future. I can chose to believe that the Emperor was a drunk grot and horus was a pink bunny spawned from the warp, and then reject everything you come up against my beliefs by stating that the IOM is corrupt, manipulative and thus untruthful. I guess its better to belief that the "myths" about Empy and primarches are true, or else, by induction, that makes all other fluff lies and then we have all wasted our time.

  43. #43
    Klaus88
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    Look from what the fluff says its seems that a Primarch can go one-on-one with ANYTHING in the WH40k universe and come out on top ANYTHING (barring direct manfestations of the chaos gods themselves of course and no C'tans wouldn't have a hope in hell against them)

    So stats are really a waste of time here alright?

    I will soon be incorprating into the Fluff of my DIY chapter how a 500 strong warband of emperor's children chaos marines led by the demon Primarch Fulgrim wiped out 9 companies of my chapter and almost 40,000 local defense forces.

  44. #44
    Distephano
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    exactly, the emperor being 'just a psyker' has to go down as the biggest understatement ive seen. the primarchs are all demi-gods in their own right, fluff says so, not reports from marines or ancient texts, fact fluff, its fluff that has been written so that you know its true not the acount soldiers or others have given which can be doubted

  45. #45
    Sword Munkeh in Spaaaace Sword_Monkey's Avatar
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    Klaus seems to think a C'tan wouldn't be able to take on a Primarch? And since when have there been any direct manifestations of a Chaos God?

    A C'tan's stats are not representative of it's true power, the same would go for a Primarch in TT, and since a C'tan can defeat and Eldar God, survive direct hits form Eldar superweapons and drink star-soup, i would say they could easily take on a Primarch, as Primarchs are limited by their still only humanoid bodies, they are not amde of energy and metal, they do not have knowledge spanning billions of years, and have proven all too often that they can be killed not that difficultly.

    So what if some people want to make up stats for Primarchs who gives a damn if a few people dont want to, they are extremely fluffy models that would be very nice to model and use, the only problem is no model's stats represents it's true power in fluff.

    So i am all for trying, and discussing what they would be able to do.

  46. #46
    in the case of a CĀ“tan its quite easy - everything that has to do something with the warp kills them;
    and primarchs are kickass psychers.

  47. #47
    Distephano
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    isnt the nightbringer currently a weaker version of his former self already though?

    and i wouldnt say primarchs can be killed ''all to easily''

    sanguinius got gutted by another primarch with the power of four chaos gods bolstering him

    horus got killed by what was probably the msot powerful physcic blast ever seen.

    nighthaunter let himself be killed my an assasin, i stress 'let'

    alpharius was killed by another primarch

    rogal dorn was killed when killing an entire bridge worth of powerful chaos troops.

    i wouldnt say easily killed by a longshot

  48. #48
    Sword Munkeh in Spaaaace Sword_Monkey's Avatar
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    ...not really, they can't survive int he warp, but theya re as resilient to warp powers as any montruous creature, it may pain thema bit to endure the warp powers, but ti won't insta kill them. Plus most powers just change realty and end up in fire or a warp/fire hybrid that does a smuch damage to a C'tan as...well fire!

    The only warp power capable of killing them would be Vortex of Doom as it would seal them in the warp eventually killing them, but since Vortex can only suck in something smaller than monstrous it isn't going to work.

    The Warp may be anethema to them but psychic powers are not, sure being in the the warp is anethema, but ahving little amounts of it chicked at your shiny metal hide is not.

    @Distephano - well relativley that's easy, as an entre bridge worth of troops could never kill a C'tan unless they were all armed with shoulder-mounted Balckstone fortress cannons.
    And assassins don't stand a chance, they have tried, though accidentally, to kill C'tan.
    And making examples of Primarchs killing other Primarchs is irrelevant as it is the power of Primarchs we are contesting, a grot can kill a grot it doesn't mean they are powerful.

    And yes the C'tan used to be very powerful, the Nightbringer is still regaining strength, and the Deciever is just the weakest of them all.
    And we haven't even seen their older brothers/sisters yet, just wait for the Void Dragon.

  49. #49
    Distephano
    Guest
    yes but no assasin has ever let a assasin try to kill it now has it, i again stress nighthaunter ''LET'' himself be assasinated. m'shen would have ended up exactly like all the other before her if nighthaunter hadnt let her kill him. and im not sayin that being killed by a primarch shows their powerful im showing that its not comparabel to another death and therefore cannot say its easily killed. and once again horus needed to be hit by the most powerful blast ever seen to be killed, hardly defines easy now does it

  50. Tabletop Senior Member  #50
    Fluffy Necromancer Andkat's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    You will see me again at the Gates of Saint Romanos...
    Aye. Recall that TT=/= Fluff. Realistically, the an Avatar taking off it's helmet would annihilate IG Regiments. C'Tan could easily defeat hundreds of conventional troops. Primarches would be somewhat less uber, but still inanely powerful.

    Oh, and by the way GroundZero. GW Fluff> Your Ramblings.

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