Announcing the release of BSG Fleet Commander version v.0.6.1

[HoratioHarlock]

Hi Everyone Im new to the Relic Forums.....I just got out my copy of Homeworld 2 and was playing....the whole time I was thinking how similar this was to the way BSG is in the new serise.....I look forward to seeing the mod and would just like to know what the status of said mod is ??? I also play a game called Nexus and we are currently developing a BSG mod for it based on the 1st Cylon War....and I would love to have BSG in homeworld.....

looking forward to completion


CMDR. Horatio "Phantom" Harlock
BSG63 Arcadia

[Spartanmk117]

Very nice Work Cloaked! What did you Say you used to textured your BSG? My BattleStar Textured Looks Very Similiar to that, But it just takes way to long for me. (i used Wings 3d to model and UV wrap it)

[Norsehound]

Thanks for the reassurances Cloaked.

Eager to see both side by side, fighting one another or otherwise.

[BrettMan]

What are the space battles like in the old series? I don't remember much of it (I remember dogfight scenes if I recall correctly). Are there pretty big capitol ship duels? What kind of heavy guns does the galactica have compared to the new series?

Norsehound, i'm sure you can field this one.

[cloaked]

HoratioHarlock - Its too early to set any date, but currently were making a lot of progress.

Spartanmk117 - Wings is good for modeling, but like most programs its a pain to UV. I'd suggest downloading LithUnwrap. Its free and it was the first version of Ultimate Unwrap 3d. You can unwrap a model without making cuts or selections. The only problem I have with LithUnwrap is that it doesn't show you what your selecting in a 3d view, like in wings and UU3D. This makes it hard to texture the area between the landing bays and the main hull on the galactica. You can download LithUnwrap here-
http://files.filefront.com/lithunwra.../fileinfo.html

Norsehound - We currently have four separate races together in the game- the original humans, original cylons, re-imagined humans and the re-imagined cylons. So you'll be able to battle with 16 different combinations of races.

BrettMan - The battles are similar, but the old ships handle very differently from the new. For instance the old vipers are not nearly as maneuverable as the new. I inted to incorporate the differences as much as possible by creating the computer AI from scratch and using custom ship manuvers.

[Maleck]

That is actually the exact thing that got me to buy Unwrap 3D too. Once I saw that it marked poly's as you selected them, I was sold.

[Norsehound]

The classic galactica suffers from the technology available at the time- lots of stock footage of lasers going off and stuff exploding. Stuff that would look kickarse if it was done modern-day...

Anyway, I imagine pre exodus the Colonials did have bouts with the Cylons in capital fleets. There isn't much outside of fanbase to describe exactly what the Colonial capital line was like... we know some colonial auxilury ships managed to escape with the fleet (foundary ship, Celestria), but not much else. I think it was mentioned that Cain's fleet was around 200 ships, but it's not clear if 'ships' includes strictly capital vessels or including fighters.

After the destruction of the colonies, only the Galactica and the Pegasus are (aguably) the only battlestars left. As the strongest assets in the fleet, this makes risking them in combat only a situation of desperate measure, as illustrated in Hand of God. Adama was always loathe to leave any of the fleet behind and had to do so in HoG to kill the one basestar and allow the fleet to escape.

When the Pegasus took on two enemy Cylon base stars simultaneously it was with a skelleton crew and no fighter cover on either side. Damaged and undermanned as he was, Cain managed to let loose anti-capital volleys and destroy both base stars (as their own missile batteries were knocked out by precison strikes, courtesy Apollo and Starbuck). So the laser returns from the Base stars didn't seem to damage the Pegasus as greatly as those missile batteries did.

From this I assume we can say that missiles were the anti-capital weapons of the era, with lasers backing them up in the position mass drivers would be in HW. From what I have seen of the new series the Galactica lacks anything capable of being considered anti-capital weaponry, instead relying on torrents of small-caliber fire to keep enemy units at bay. The classic galactica, on the other hand, mounts high-power turbolasers for anti-capital and anti-fighter use. Missiles as seen on the Pegasus would be large colonial models meant to hurt base stars.

Fan conjectured battlestars and capital ships mount large puslar lasers for some anti-ship fighting, but nothing concrete is known. Richard hatch's attempt to re-launch galactica features a trailer showing the Galactica firing a pair of anti-capital beam weapons out of the nose, but I suppose that's conjecture also.

---------

So to answer your question (again I guess,) BrettMan, in the Classic days after the colonial destruction capital bouts were mostly capital ship and escort screen wars. The 'King' so to speak was the capital ship, and the 'pawns' and other peices were fighters.

From what I've seen of the new Galactica, the Classic one has it beat in terms of armament and armor. The Classic galactica's turbolasers are meant to destroy energy-sheilded targets which the Cylons were using at the time.

The new Galactica, to me at least, doesn't look like it has anti-laser armor (sloped armor is an iffy), and it's main armament consists of a lot of mass-drivers meant to take down fighters. It's like a true space carrier in the sense that it has no anti-capital weaponry on it's own, but does have defenses against fighters. I can only assume a ship like the Galactica was supposed to rely on escorts or battleships to take on any capital threat (or it's fighters).

Dunno about the new Pegasus, as I don't care much to see her in action. if she has energy weapons (doubtful), maybe it could stand toe-to-toe with a classic Cylon base star. If not, then at least she has mobility. I imagine the 'new' ships have the classic ones beat in the sense that they are faster, not necissarily better armored.

Sorry for that rant :P

000----------------------------------------------
An aside to fighters;

The new galactica vipers don't appear to have turbos. I observed this earlier and felt it was surprising. It seems the new galactica hurtles fighters out by a catapult system... while the origional has the vipers using their turbos to launch from the chutes.

I suppose the new vipers might have the classic starhounds beat in terms of manuverability, but the classic viper still has it's turbo and a pair of energy cannons. I assume they are both the same speed (without boosters), and the new vipers might have missiles, but in terms of raw firepower the laser still beats the kinetic round.

Cylon fighters on both eras seem to mount energy cannons. The classic raiders don't have missiles, but I would imagine they beat the new ones in terms of toughness. The new raiders look like they can come apart if you touch them in the right spot (like most of the renvisioned cylon tech). Classic Cylons look like they can take a beating before they go down.

[Sastrei]

The new ships have missile batteries that can do some major damage to the Basestars. They've shown them off a few times this season.

-Stefan-

[Norsehound]

How many shots did it take to kill one? How many missiles?

Unsure how many the classic Pegasas let off... maybe three volleys or so. I'd have to watch that episode again.

[TigerVX]

Actually in the new series is appears all sides take advantage of Rail Guns and missiles rather then energy weapons as the old series did, probably to fit more in with the retro-tech aspect of the show. It seems that most if not all the offensive weapons on capital ships in the new series either have missiles, flak cannons, or rail guns/mass drivers as main offensive weapons (With Battlestars prefering railguns and Basestars prefering missiles). And while the Galactica cannot take down a basestar on it's own as seen in many episodes, the Pegasus is a different story.

Spoiler

as seen in the recent episode in which Apollo is promoted, the Pegasus manages to hold its own against -three- Cylon Base Stars long enough to get its FTL drives back online. The railguns on the Pegasus seem deadly at close range (And the Galactica too, though its stand-off capability is again worse) as only a couple volley's to the central axis of a base star sent the ship limping away, and as the Pegasus fled we could see it being enveloped in flames.

It appears in the new series the Battlestars excel in close broad-side actions against enemy ships with their large amounts of rail gun battery's while the cylon basestar's are deadly at long range's with uncountable missile batteries and hundred's of raiders at their disposal.

[Norsehound]

So in that sense then, a new Battlestar's weaponry relies on being accurate at close range. It's not an unknown fact that ballistic weapons tend to shake themselves into inaccuracy, and I'd assume it's the same for rapid fire rail weapons seen in the new Galactica.

It also seems to me that the Pegasus, as a newer battlestar (Well, Destroyer) would fit in the role of an escort for the galactica meant to take down enemy capital ships, not cader fighters around (though as a newer generation of ship it does carry the same amount as the 'old' new galactica). I'd imagine the new Pegasus also runs some serious missile payloads, probably to put her on par with her counterpart in the classic.

I also have to say again that the new Cylons are just so...fragile. It's easier to break one in half than it is for the classic Cylons because of the ease of getting to the center core. Sure they might be fast and all, but I liked it when the cylons were menacing and looked like they could take a beating... not fly around in christmas ornaments (That's for the angels of light ).

I still hold the beleif that the classic battlestars' armor makes them almost impervious to bullets. Battlestars in the classic era are products of a hundred yahrens of war against the cylons, over which they may have done the upgrade from ballistics to energy weapons. Nevertheless, since the Galactica has seen many attacks over it's many yarhen of operation, I can assume she's armored against both projectiles and especialy energy weapons.

The classic galactica was well-aged, Adama having inherited the command from his father. In that time she's seen combat well into the generational span of time, possibly having undergone upgrades. I think the Atlantia might have been younger according to the books (the Atlantia being the Battlestar where the Quroum was holding session during the suprise attack).

There is also some thought that the origional Galactica has energy screens- since on-screen dialouge points to Adama ordering to raise force shields (can't remember the exact line...) some fans like to dismiss this as being similar to locking up all exterior ports (Or 'polarizing the hull plating'), and I think I share their assesment (The armor is strong enough to take repeated Cylon energy laser blasts... I think it can take a typical railgun shell).

But if this team wants to go that route, then classic battlestars also have energy shields, as per dialouge in Hand of God. Then again you can do your own snooping to come to that decision, as giving the classic battlestars energy screens would just make them really tough, really slow battlewagons typical of taking and dispensing incredible punishment.

But then, that's how I saw them in the firstplace, even without energy screens

[Zephey]

Norse I love reading your posts, so informative. Your rants are what keep me going through the day.

[Deathscythe61]

Ahem. Let me roll in my knowledge on this. This is all New Series.
The pegasus has actual armor. The galactica does not. That's why it can take hits from nukes.

The Colonial Fleet is based on projectile weapondry all over. It makes close combat with a colonial ship suicide, even for the scientifically more advanced Cylons. I'd now like to write out some random ideas, because I can.

Colonial Fleet:
Colonial Fleet will start out with a Battlestar class ship. All battlestar ships will be considered to be capable of fighter production, a la Pegasus in RDM. It can deploy a resource/production plant. Which can be undeployed again, as long as the pegasus is nearby. (It would take a while). THe production plant is only capable of producing Viper/Raptor class ships. It can, however, also produce one other item. A message pod. This message pod will basically be responsible for bringing in a new ship by FTL travel. It will be a Tyllium refinary. Tyllium refinary can also set up it's own plant on a rock or resource. It could basically produce some next level up ship. Yet again, Tylium Refinary can pack up and move. Tyllium refinary can produce a 'rig', which is basically a large construction platform. This will be unmoveable. It can be responsible for one of two thigns. Either, it will refit your starting battlestar (With armor plating, more turrets, etc if docked) or it can be responsible for building new battlestars/other larger ships. Naturally, each stage can have more details to it. Rig might be moveable, I don't know, I'm thinking of this as I type.

Colonial Fleet FTL: FTL would take longer for Colonials, and would have less accuracy. By 'longer' I mean longer for them to actually jump. With BSGs need to retract their pods, and other ships needing to calculate jump coordinates. Raptors, Battlestars, and mystery frigate class can jump.

Colonial Ships:
Battlestar: Heavy ballistics, slightly faster in normal space than the base star. It's fire can intercept most cylon basestar missles. However, the range for effective damage will be short. It will have a weak belly.

Viper mk II: Per unit, cheaper than MkVIIs (or whatever the newest version is), however, slower and less maneuverable. Base combat prowess is better than that of a Cylon raider.

Viper mk VIIs: Not too expensive, but fast and maneuvrable. Base combat prowess makes it a very good fighter.

Raptor: Powerful scanners, and capable of deploying countermeasures for cylon missles. (This would have a powerful role, as I'll show in the cylon section)

Stealth Fighter (The one BSG built): No radar blip unless weapons are hot. Dunno how to do combat abilities.

Note, I'd probably have two different battlestar classes, a third viper class, and some sort of intermediate combat frigate as well.
Basically, the Colonials will have a fleet capable of *running* a whole lot. Obvious, there would have to be some sort of a penalty. Such as the possibility of FTL failing or having it cost some resources.

Cylons:
Cylons will be built more on a static basis in some ways. This will be paired with better FTL.
Opening ship: Not a ship, a mining base. (Like on that asteroid) It would move slowly, and once deployed be unmoveable. However, the rock it's on would probably have really effecient resource extraction. This mining base will have killer point defense, but no missles. In otherwords, ramming the base battlestar into it will be suicide. (To prevent the different from ruining the game). Mining base can build nearly everything, but will require upgrades of some sorts. (Think modules from HW2). Perhaps, if necessary, the mining base can have at some later point an upgrade to be redeployable. (Though undoubtedly there would be the ability to build new ones). Thus, the base of construction would be more fixed for the Cylons.

Cylon FTL travel: FTL travel has no kick up time. And a short cool down time. Naturally, some sort of balancer would be needed. All ships are FTL capable. Excluding mining ship. Basically, they can hop all they want around a Colonial fleet, but their heart is still quite stationary. Accurate jumps, too.

Cylon ships.
Basestar: Long range. And I mean LONG range. Think 3x the range of the battlestar. However, one basestar attacking from anywhere but the battlestar's belly is guaranteed to lose. Possibly even two. At three, hits start coming in on the Battlestar. Slower than Battlestar. Glass jaw. She ain't meant for taking a beating. Cheaper than Battlestar.

Cylon Raider: Far cheaper than the vipers, but not quite as effective at base combat prowess. Capable of FTL though, so there is a rather powerful advantage, eh? Upgrade will exist for a missle or two to be upgraded to it. These missles will have long range.

*Insert frigate class ship here*

Resurrection ship: I love this idea, though implemntation would be hard. No defenses on this ship, and pretty physically weak. However, it's the reason why there is only one cylon fighter type. All cylon ships with experience that die within range of one of these puppies is basically saved, and will be placed with the same experience when a new ship is built. If the resurreciton ship is destroyed, all those saved experienced pilots will be gone.

Boarding ship: I've realized that Battlestars are overpowering the cylons with my setup. This can basically ram a battlestar, and the area selected to be 'contested' will be disabled on the battlestar for a while (While the marines take out the Cylon incursion). (Being an engine, or docking bay)

Cylon basestars can have a lot of fighters. A lot. Stored.
Different battlestars can store different numbers of ships, and launching bays can be sabotaged by boarding ships. Limiting or eliminating the ability to release vipers.

Dynamics of the game:
It starts with both groups basically immobile. (Since the battlestar must mantain its production) and prevents a battlestar rush since a set up mining station can handle a basic battlestar. However, since an unsetup mining station is slow and unarmed, it won't do much either. Battlestar starts getting some vipers out. Cylon raiders produced too. Possible harassment of battlestar requisition possible, but unlikely, since its flak shileds can cover its defense. More likely, combat will be limited to securing resources for expansion. (I have to work out a Cylon model for this expansion, and Colonial too, really). Cylon frigates will be fielded before Colonial ones. However, since the colonials can pack up and start elsewhere, these won't be too much of an issue, plus the flak alone of the battlestar could probably ensure that it wouldn't harm main operations, and other economic operations can just move about.

Basestar vs. Battlestar battles will be my bread and butter. Basically, Basestars will have to be dodgy, etc. whilst Battlestars would need to work systematically to corner base stars. Naturally, massive fighter battles too!

in the meantime, a cat and mouse game would be played between the resurrection ship and the stealth ships. (Who would presumably be able to disable the FTL drive on the ressurection ship before it can escape). Otherwise, a colonial player would be doomed as the cylon fighters keep getting better and better...

Like I said, just a quick writeup. however, I would need some sort of balancing mechanism to prevent Cylon hopping from being too cheap. But I really want the generally aspct of the two to remain like this.

[Norsehound]

Deathsyche; while your post is very long and thoughtful, you have to realize that you don't have any say on what stats are eventually implimented in the mod. Neither do I, much to my dismay (as it's obvious I fear a new BSG bias...).

You also neglected to include the classic units and how the new series ships would be balanced against them.

This is Yafin's mod, but that's all I'll say about your post. Don't be presumptuous, I know I shouldn't be, but that's the drift I got with your post.

---------
Why thank you Zephy. As a fan of fluff, it's my job to have a vauge notion of what I'm talking about

--------------

Since DS was kind enough to post his views about new BSG ships, might as well state some of how I think the classics should operate;

Colonial battlestar: The big one. This isn't a carrier, it is a battlestar, and as such it is big, slow, wollowing, and can take a significant amount of beating before going down. Maybe a subystem module to include missiles (or pulsar lasers, or extra armor, or whatever ) to give her serious anti-ship capability, but her turbolasers on it's own is good enough to melt holes in newer BSG ships or your avergae cylon. Guns aren't built for precsion fire, so they won't bullseye fighters, but they can still cause hurt against capital ships.

The Classic battlestar is slow, but can take and give a tremendous beating. Can produce fighters, as it held many in storage. As a Battlestar she is a flagship with flagship facilities, and can coordinate movement for the entire fleet from the bridge. Thus, she is a production-capable ship if desired.

The Cylon Base Star:
The gigantic dual UFO of space can take perhaps two-thirds the amount of punishment the battlestar can, can move a little faster, and has missile subsystems. Point is, Base stars operate in squadrons to take down Battlestars. Baltar had at most three under his command at any one time if that's any indication.

Obviously can take a lot more punishment than the Christmas ornament 'cylon ship' ;P, but it is also slower and less nimble.

Suggest two old Cylon base stars become available; the 'Command type' which can change-out it's weapons for others (Stronger lasers, pulsar weapon, heavier missiles) and can summon other units. Another base star could be built (to a max of three), but wouldn't be upgradeable. This would reflect ships belonging to Baltar/Imperius leader/IL series cylons.

[Spartanmk117]

Cloaked Thanks for the Help man :yippee:

[DatonKallandor]

Also experience isnt viable in the HW2 engine.


Daton

[Maleck]

I have finished up a version of the Raptor and passed it on to see if ii is liked.

[pvtbones]

perhaps the res. ship could give off bonus (like the fire control tower and the vygr command corvette) with a large radius (as in quite quite large).

[JarredT1030]

I like the idea for the res ship. Would be a great thing to add to the singleplayer missions. Good for objective play.

[Maleck]

IF anyone can get me a good set of screen captures or other clear iamges, I could see about hammering one out.

--- edit ---
I am looking to see if I still have the Ressurection Ship episodes somewhere, and if I do, I may be able to get some shots that i can work from. But any additional material would definitely help out.

["Apollo"]

Maleck, I can take care of those caps for you. I've got the episodes right here.

[Deathscythe61]

Ahaha, oops. GO FIGure, the Battlestar post I thought I was posting in was locked; I assumed that this was just a continuation of that one. Woops. The other post was more a question of what kinda set up it would have, and I was banking on only BSG RDM.

[Maleck]

@Apollo, that would be great! PM me when you have a chance to get them and i can get you my email address.

[cloaked]

We could use a lot of help collecting screen shots off of the reimagined dvds, to make textures. I've already got enough resources from the origional bsg, so that won't be a problem. Below is a list of what ships we currently need pics of-
heavy raider
raider
reserection ship
basestar
raptor
blackbird
viper mk7
mining ship
pegasis
galactica - back view, and inside landing bays

If you can help us out, just zip the pics and send them to me.

["Apollo"]

Maleck has a bunch of caps for Resurrection and the Heavy Raider already. I'l work on the rest and probably have the caps in two and a half hours.

[JarredT1030]

just incase anybody didn't know, the site in my signature is a main site we are using to develop this mod. Please register there to receive the latest updates. We will continue to use this board as well. However, most major modification work will be done in the site forums.

[yafn]

If you are a contributor (you have sent me a file(s)), please make sure to introduce yourself on the intro board, that way we can get you staff access. Thanks!

[Maleck]

I have the shots from Apollo and am going through them working up models for the Resurrection ship and heavy raider. i am planning to work on the mining ship after that.

Let me know if anyone else wants to work on these so we are not duplicating work.

[sniper968]

Don't forget the Cylon marine boarding ship- which seemed to work like the Marine ships of Homeworld2.

["Apollo"]

The cylon boarding ship *is* the heavy raider.

[Maleck]

@cloaked - How is the texturing going on the Galactica?

--- EDIT ---

Heard from cloaked, and he is waiting some screen saps from the shows to get texturing done.

I have also finished the model for the colonial mining ship and sent it on for texturing and importing.

[Traumahead87]

srry if i missed this on a previous thread but has any addressed the hyperspacing and if the raiders, raptors, and blackbird will have a short jump capability?

["Apollo"]

@Traumahead:
Hyperspacing has been addressed. The effect has been modified to make it more BSGish and Raiders/Raptors do have jump capability. The blackbird will also be given jump capability.

[Sastrei]

Oooo you guys got them to do the double-light flash?

-Stefan-

[DatonKallandor]

Should have been rather easy. Just a greatly sped up HS window effect with the window FX replaced by a redblueish jump flash.


Daton

[Maleck]

Have passed on a newer version of the Basestar for texturing, and am finalizing a more detailed Galactica.

[Traumahead87]

Thx apollo you guys are doing a great job i cant wait for complete version. did anyone think of adding in scar the lone raider as a special unit. up his armor and weapons and speed and have him just hunt vipers?

[death_ab]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but with the New BS the heavy railguns (they make me think of catapults every time i see them for some reason) also have to be able to 'flak' it appears that they are both the main Anti Capital and Anti Fighter weapons. If you dont know how to do this i'd sugest talking to the PDS people. They can help you.

Does anyone know just how many Lasers the Original Had anyway?

["Apollo"]

Flak and Salvo fire are something I've been working on a lot and I plan to get it as close to TNS as possible.

[death_ab]

Cool. Just though I would mention it.

And have you though about moding the 'launch formation' and have the all come out at a line abrest?

[Norsehound]

As far as I can tell it was not officially mentioned how many laser batteries a typical Battlestar carried, only that they were clearly used against both fighters and capital craft. Weather they were 'energized' to shoot at bigger targets or not is up to your disgression, but they WERE fired at capitals.

If I were tasked to name the armament, I'd just say xMany, because that's what it was. Many, as being in the upper tens or hundreds.

[JarredT1030]

@death
The vipers do launch from the side of galactica and they return by speeding into the landing bays.

[Norsehound]

I think what he's asking is are the vipers coded to launch from seperate launch tunnels from each hanger pod.

[cloaked]

As far as I know the hw2 engine only supports one launch bay per ship class. So unfortunately we can only use one tube. There is a work-around, but it would make the build menu a mess. (ie: multiple viper squadrons like red, blue and yellow, each of a different ship class, like fighters, corvets, frigs. Even then we'd still be limited to about three tubes.)

Edit: I added some more info

[Llan]

That wouldn't be a problem, I think. What do you think?

[death_ab]

No what im saying is there is a 'launch formation' option in the unit stats.

You could try changing it to line abrest and see it it works as i think it might...

Or i could try it when i get home... If i remember to.

[cloaked]

No, each ship has to launch in a line one after another. The only thing you can change is their spacing.

[Norsehound]

Why just two?

In some shots for classic, Vipers came in groups of as much as four or five... Three in the very least, as I think Apollo and starbuck were the only exceptions since Apollo was a squadron leader and Starbuck may have been his second officer. Three usually constituted a 'patrol' otherwise...

Not sure how they run formations in the new BSG, seeing how unmilitary like their activities are on the Pegasus (from what I've heard).

[cloaked]

@Norsehound - You replied too fast for my crappy initial posts. My edited post has nothing to do with unit sizes. We will be experimenting with different viper unit sizes that are based on the show and what works in the game. The downside to using large unit sizes is that you can simply dock the unit to recover lost ships.

[Maleck]

Finally got some work in on the new version of the Galactica. Hopefully i can get it finished today and passed on to the group to see if it will work, or if I need to make more changes to it.