So what size infantry squads are we talking about?
I was told the germans had 4 to a squad!!!
Sounds way too small to me. If its true its going either be a very small game or have a ton of squads running round both of which are bad.
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So what size infantry squads are we talking about?
I was told the germans had 4 to a squad!!!
Sounds way too small to me. If its true its going either be a very small game or have a ton of squads running round both of which are bad.
Whoever told you this seems to have violated the NDA...
- sincerely, the Sign Painter
#3
As LoneWolf666 points out, any answer to this would be an NDA violation.
I would urge you not to make judgments like "both of which are bad" without having ever seen or played the game.
Think of it this way: ever played a RTS game that doesn't have squads? That was a game with even smaller squad sizes - 1. Surely you've enjoyed squad size 1 games before?
Indeed, wait until you can actually play the game firsthand before making an assesment like that.
As a Beta tester I can definitely say that the game is hugely enjoyable
#5
I will point out that the Axis Infantry video on IGN.com gives some indication as to squad size, so it's not really a big deal re: NDA stuff.
Remember that things like squad size is determined by balancing etc in RTS games. If you have squads that are too big or to small depending on the unit's role, it can seriously unbalance the game. Imagine if you have a squad that was say 10 units big, and all the units were hard to take down. It'd kinda suck then if they were able to reinforce continously while standing near a reinforcement thingy.
There's other things that factor in as well, like the squad AI, unit animations etc.
Smaller squads are more precise which is necessary in the coh style battlefield. DoW you could get away with 20-30 man squads because they didn't have to occupy buildings, hide behind cover etc.
Tiny Squads mean they are well train,well equip
they are elite and veteran ;D:yippee:
Well I hope they are historically accurate to some degree. I believe a 'squad' usually refers to a group of 8-12 men (so basically DoW's Space Marine Squad). I think thats a solid number for most combat squads. The support squads like the MG teams will most likely be between 2-3.
Or they're taken casualties. Reasoning to internet coming soon....Tiny Squads mean they are well train,well equip
The Americans had little or no veterains and the Germans were beginning to use the German version of the home guard (forgotten name Volksguarden or something) and Hitler youth. I remember seeing somewhere they mentioned about squad sizes so I don't think it will be a violation.Tiny Squads mean they are well train,well equip
they are elite and veteran ;D
Originally Posted by Shuma
Id rather have a few small, tactically flexible squads than one uber, gets in its own way squad. It makes the game far more fun due to the ability to use tactics rather than just standing there and shooting like in DoW.
Tiny SquadsAs LoneWolf666 points out, any answer to this would be an NDA violation.
I would urge you not to make judgments like "both of which are bad" without having ever seen or played the game.
Think of it this way: ever played a RTS game that doesn't have squads? That was a game with even smaller squad sizes - 1. Surely you've enjoyed squad size 1 games before?
Yeah I have played games like that, infact most RTS are like that - and I dont buy most RTS. Most RTS are rubbish and I only buy the one or two that look like stand outs which was why I was keeping an eye on COH.
I hate squad size one, it effectively makes infantry useless - their throwaway units not the backbone of my army like they should be, makes them hard to control, removes my sense of being a commander and makes me feel like a sheep herder. It also make it diffcult to do things like healing and reinforcements.
One of the stand out aspects of DOW was its squad system. I got to control lots of men, which looks visually pleasing, but at the same time it was easy to do so since I may have had only 6 or 7 units under my control.
Its a shame really as I dont want 30 man squads I just dont want to be running round with scout marine sqauds either.
NDA Stuff?
I dont really know what NDA your talking about, the beta thingy at a guess. As far as i know my friend(who told me this) hasnt played the game. He just hangs out on other forums. I came here for confirmation, which by saying "Whoever told you this seems to have violated the NDA" kinda confirms it as true!
Anyways as far as my legal knowledge goes they only apply to confidential information, eg information others dont know, if its somehow public (like screenshots, interviews, previews, videos, demos, press releases, forums discussions etc), then its no longer confidential.
I dont see why you need inside info for squad size when theres a demo like the comic con guy saw (who said 6 to a sqaud for US), as well as videos and previews.
Well im not the one who will be in trouble for talking but I guess what im saying is dont get worried about a legal boogey man whenever the topic comes up.
#12
All of us under the NDA are not allowed to speak about anything in the beta, and while yes some info will have been released by THQ in demos and such we do not know the exact amount of stuff has been released, what might have changed etc, so we basically have to play it safe and not say a word.
http://spinningplatesmusic.blogspot.com/ - My Blog
"The book of love has music in it, in fact that's where music comes from, some of it is just transcendental, some of it is just really dumb"
Yeah I get that. Like I said your the ones who will get in strife not me.
I dont know if the its accurate but the aggreement posted on this site only says confidential information - not the beta in general - so once you know its public you can talk about it thats what public is.
If someone says 'oh thats a breach of the NDA' you can say i saw it in a preview on gamespot or wherever.
Even if we assume for safetys sake that it was not in any screenshots, demos etc. LoneWolf666 has confirmed the german squad size from the beta, on a public message board for the all the world to see. I was told it myself from another source. Its not confidential anymore.
Anyways back to units sizes which is what this thread is about. I definetley hope they expand the unit sizes.
#14
How do you know LoneWolf is in the beta himself?
#15
Well, a set squad size for Axis set at 4 is incorrect actually.
There are many different squads, each is sized according to its role.
Not to mention whatever the squad size at Comiccon was - it's outdated.
Daton
Rofl....how about we just wait for the game to be released instead of endlessly speculating as to what the end product will be. No doubt they may very well change a number of things due to feedback from beta testing. Seriously, there's still a month and a half (or there abouts) to go, so why put yourself through all the stress of wondering what is going to be the end product. Even the open beta coming out next month may not be the final version. I for one am very happy to bide my time and wait for its release, rather than pour over titbits which really don't indicate anything substancial. I realise that its a healthy thing to hype a game before its release, and kudos to relic promoters for doing a great job. I've already pre-ordered.
Last edited by re-con; 25th Jul 06 at 4:01 PM.
We seem to be discussing the wrong thing here.
This topic is what size the squads are and whether you like that size. Its not not whether or not you personally can talk about it. If you cant you cant. If you dont want to you dont want. If you want to, like me, then get stuck in.
Ive heard that standard german squads (eg exluding builders and heavy weapon teams) are small, like 4 men, they look smaller then their american counterparts too. Itd apparently a balance issue at the least. The maximum squad size for anyone looks like 6 or so men. Most are smaller.
I dont like it, do you?
Now the NDA everyone likes to discuss. Two points:
1. You may not be violating your NDA if you mention something from the beta. I havent seen the agreement but usually they pertain only to confidential information. If so then what you can say is fluid and gets larger all the time as more is revealed in other sources.
2. I dont like the people being scared or over zealous. At another forum I saw people shouting 'NDA' at everyone trying to discuss it and worrying the forum would get sued or something. Scared or angry i dont know but it was totally unnecessary. And this thread has been completely dominated by it, when its not even an issue.
Good point ceejayoz your quite right we dont know that. But his reply would indicate that he is or else why would he assume that, he wouldnt just chime in like that if he didnt know what he was talking about would he.
But he seems to think im right, my friend thinks hes right, Ive seen it on other forums. Its potentially in screen shots or videos or whereever it originally came from. Now ÜberJumper seems to know too. Thats and the videos are good enough for me, but then its academic for me because I have nothing to lose, if I had the beta I'd be playing it not reading about it.
So my point remains that it dosent seem confidential when we have all these things available (videos etc see last post) indicating squad size. Its a matter of scale of course, what is and is not public, but imagine someone saying 'so the germans are in right?' or 'this is a pc game right?' and being told 'NDA'. Their common knowledge, you can talk about it.
Do all the videos and screenshots floating round of the beta mean its no longer confidential - I dont know, im not a lawyer.
Do all the forums posts from people alleging to have played the beta mean its no longer confidential - I dont know, im not a lawyer.
At the end of the day I dont want anyone to break to their side agreements I just came here for information.
If you cant talk then dont. If you arent bound by law or custom, like me, then share your information.
So 4 would be heavy weapons or something? On one of the videos it looked like there were about 6 memebers in the American parachute squad.
A) Everything you saw in videos is outdated. If you saw it any leaked Beta footage, it's irrelevant because we can't talk about it.
B) Noone who COULD confirm it, is allowed to.
Daton
Small squads are fine for me. As long as the system for selecting/organizing your men isn't implimented like 'faces of war' from the demo. What a counter productive element to a game that is.
#22
I will say that after playing the beta, I have no concerns over squad size for axis compared to squad size for allies.
The game seems well balanced in that respect.
If you remember Homeworld 2, you'll know that the Hiigaran squadron sizes were smaller than the Vaygr squadron sizes because the Vaygr units were not as tough as the Hiigarans.
Again, being in the know, I'm not at all worried about squad sizes. IMO, it's as big a non-issue as a non-issue can be.
NDA issues aside...
The smallest unit in the military is not a "squad". This is a common misconception.
The smallest unit that can operate by itself is a SECTION. 4 men to a rifle section is not small, it is normal.
I think around about 6-8 for rifles squad and 3-5 for AT would be nice.
I did?LoneWolf666 has confirmed the german squad size from the beta
Sorry, I'm just overhyped about it all and I think I treat this all too seriously...
#26
Ectelion... hmmm smallest unit that can operate by itself, in my experience, would be a single fire team (2 men).
#27
The size of a military unit is contingent upon the country you are from.
In a general international sense the smallest military unit is a fire and maneuver team, which consists of 2 personnel.
In the United States the smallest military unit is a fireteam, which consists of 4 personnel.
In the United Kingdom the smallest military unit is generally a section (consisting of 8-10 personnel), which can be split into two fireteams for flexibility or tactical reasons.
I'm guessing in company of heroes, squads size will probably be dependent upon the role they play. But I'm assuming you'll see anywhere between 4-8 people per "squad".
#28
Some other things to consider are actual historical "unit/squad" sizes.
The MG42 crew for example operated with a team of 3 (a gunner, a loader/ammo + barrell carrier, and a spotter).
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