Tinweasel

Initially, my plan was to make enough conversions of loose IG parts I had gathered up so as to be able to field a Lost & the Damned army of The Shriven, from Dan Abnett's first Gaunt's Ghosts book. (I just found out last night, however, that the LatD are no longer valid troops, as of the release of the new Chaos Codex - they still have any army list but aren't suitable for tourney/official play. I'd have to field an actual IG army in order to be able to use them.)

Here's some of the work so far:

My plan was to do some sculpting of industrial rubberized protective outfits, like you'd find with hazardous chemical gear. I basically went nuts with a diamond-point engraver bit and the Dremel, then GS-ed the top parts of what I hope look like rubberized overalls, complete with distorted Chaotic runes. Basically feeling my way along blindly here, although I've a halfways decent idea of what I'd like a generic "Shriven trooper" to look like.


I was wondering if anyone had any ideas/suggestions on modeling chemical-resistant outfits or happened to have any good links to images/descriptions chem suits, gas masks, and the like?

Has anyone actually seen any modeled Shriven troops? I've scoured the 'net but found nothing.

Tinweasel

I've broadened my work to some Chaos Space Marine sprues that I've managed to scrounge and am working on a few of the supporting Iron Warriors to go along with the force of Shriven.

I'm essentially asking for feedback here, because as some of you may have heard (and been bummed with), Lost and the Damned is no longer a valid troops list, but the army list is available on GW's websites for "shits 'n' giggles." With that in mind, I'm wondering how to make up an army of "Imperial Guard"-esque troops, only evil, and supporting Space Marines, only Chaos. I was thinking just do them straight by the book and Codex-compliant on the chance that some day (like maybe Apocalypse, should I manage to progress beyond a squad or two) they might be somehow legal again.

I also wanted to garner opinions on the Chaos portion of the army - having read through the new Chaos Codex several times, the gist I'm getting is that you realistically can include troops from any force and any Legion or Renegade Chapter so long as they all fit underneath a single nice banner and are Codex-compliant. I'm thinking this should be a good diversion for me in allowing me to paint different Chaos schemes while still letting them fall under the heading of Iron Warriors.

With that in mind, what exactly makes an Iron Warrior look like an "Iron Warrior?" Would it be the predominantly metallic paint scheme, the hazard stripes, or just the reliance on mechanical gear as opposed to outright daemonic gear? (For example, if I want to include Possessed I'm likely going to have to pass on the new stock figures because an aside in the Codex says that IW's use "daemonically powered" mechanical constructs for their Possessed instead of mutated tentacles and such.


Feedback would be greatly appreciated, and I'm hoping in the next day or so to include a finished low-budget army standard Chaos Marine co-opted into the IW that'd fit my new "theme."

Kurgan T Lurker

LatD are in the new Apocalypse rules TinWeasel. Though they no longer have Power Armor to lead them they do gain access to the full IG Codex. Basically they are Traitor Guardsman now through and through.

As for the Iron Warriors -- the caution stripes are 'classic' to them and of course the 'iron' color scheme. As for possessed -- the Iron Warriors tend to not have mutations and those that do lop them off and replace them with bionics. Even the only demons they really deal with are those they have imprisoned within weapons and vehicles. If you want to go in the way way back Machine the Iron Warriors had followers of Slaanesh at one time (RT Days) and then later Khorne (2nd Edition).

misterjustin

Iron Hands Space Marines... with a Chaos symbol somewhere. You can make good use of those nice Iron Hands bits.

I've played around with adding Dreadnought smoke stacks and a Chaos Dread CC weapon to a IW Terminator -- but I haven't touched this model in almost a year:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/misterjustin/265699208/

I for one do think that the Traitor Guard will see a new list with the release of Codex: Ruinous Powers -- and plan on making some traitors of my own. Too many folks have LatD armies and Forge World only recently released their new line of renegades. Doing away with an army that isn't redundant (and Squats were redundant) is just a poor marketing decision.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Colonel Temp

you could try the forgeworld traitor sets.

also i always pictured the shriven as wearing bright yellow overalls and having gasmasks on like them anti radiation suits or whatever

[MaGiC]

nice idea here

as for the heads what about zombie heads? I mean it wouldn't be that bad if they looked a bit sick?

and you can always remodel the face with a gas mask...

KillerHappyFace

I remember seeing a link (I think it was in the Female IG command squad thread) that had a couple of very nice looking Biohazard Troopers...might be worth looking into in this case.

Edit: Found it: http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/range.php?range=FW

Tinweasel

Well, here's the first test figure mostly finished. The majority of him is basecolors and shading and it's just a matter of highlighting up from here and adding some more details. (Pardon the glossiness, he won't be getting DullCote until the end...)




Hopefully this gets across what I'm aiming for - taking stock schemes from other Legions (I've got a few favorites, Word Bearers being one of them) and essentially "planting" them into an Iron Warriors / evil Imperial Guard army.

This is my first actual unaltered Chaos Marine - feedback would be appreciated. Too dark, too light, too something-or-other?

Sir Clausel

well I have no idea of how much you are gonna highlight him but the red have to be a little lighter. are the gun gonna be black/yellow striped or just yellow? anyway looks great so far! as always!
oh by the way I like the word bearers to! are you gonna model a cool lord for them? say eliphas?

KingOfFools

It is not quite clear to me, what you want to achieve.

you want a mixed force of chaos marine forces (IW and WB and maybe others) and traitor guard, is that correct?
or are you choosing yet, like WB or IW?
or did you decide for WB already?
or are you making a mixed scheme of IW and WB?



this depends on what you want to achieve. is that supposed to be a WB marine?

Civik

The red looks fine for something that hasn't been highilghted yet. The bronze looks a little dull, but as you said, highlights are yet to come.

I think it looks good as a WB marine.

Do you use glosscoat to help with washes? Or is the gloss specifically from a wash for shading?

Tinweasel

@ Sir Clausel - yeah, right now he's an overall dark burgundy basecoat to which I added a little bit in the way of Red Gore on some of the upper surfaces. I think I need to lay down some Red Gore and then Blood Red in order to round out the highlights on the armor. I went so far as Blazing/Fiery Orange on a previous converted Word Bearers figure and then washed that down with Red Ink, but I don't think I'll go up that high as that's 3-4 more steps and I don't really want him to be too involved. So far as modeling a Lord or anything, I haven't gotten anywhere near that yet. Hell, I only have 1 more Chaos backpack left to use out of my bitz... odds are good, though, that the Lord will be pure Iron Warriors as this guy (and other troops I might get around to making) are under the new Chaos Codex "warband" guidelines of having joined up from other Legions/orders - he's got his insignia blacked out on his right shoulder.

@ KingOfFools - yeah, he's supposed to be a Word Bearers marine that's recently renounced and joined up with an Iron Warriors warband. I pretty much wanted to go with a straight Word Bearers color scheme, blacked out the insignia, and gave him an Iron Warriors bolter... that's why I'm really looking for feedback on the color schemes and appearance, because I'm feeling my way along blindly only have looked through the new 4th Ed. Chaos Codex a few times.

@ Civik - Looks like a WB marine? Dig it. Yeah, I need to tidy up the red, but it's good to go so far as the base color and the shading, and the lining-in where the armor meets the trim. I went with a brown-based silver as I think it looks more ancient and I was trying to recreate the color scheme from my converted Word Bearers Dark Apostle ages ago... only with fewer steps and a simpler scheme while still trying to have the color look the same.

The glossiness is part of my thinner mixture - I use liquid acrylic to partially thin down my paints and it dries semi-glossy. So yeah, it's a part of the washes - and the basecoats, and the glazes, and the highlights, and the... etc.

Civik

Cool, I actually hadn't used washes too much because I could never get them to flow just right. I had read often of using a gloss coating to help the washes move more naturally into the recesses (mostly in finescale modeling mags, since it has a smoother finish) and I have some gloss extender medium which I was using for decals I suppose I could try that and see if it helps a bit when I need washes for shading.

God knows I can't paint a decent line anyway.

Your paintwork always ends up ace Tin, can't wait to see him finished up.

KingOfFools

hmm WB that join the IW, you are hitting some ideological extremes here IMO:
the WB are the most devoted and daemon oriented (undevided) CSM legion and
the IW are although somewhat devoted to the Chaos the least daemonic legion at all.

guess those WB members had enough of warpy beasts!

Well you definitely need the hazard stripes then.

oh, and for WB shouldn't the trim be silver? or is that different on purpose?

B3NNII

Sweet Tin. Solid colours all round. I like the idea, even if it doesnt fit fluff wise.
Is this just one miniature or going to be a squad?

Anyhow, keep us updated.

BillyBob

I'm feeling the word bearers look.
And I hope you don't mind me stealing how you altered the horns on the head. I HATE that damned head with a passion. But now it looks a million times better without it meeting on the top.

ChaosReigns

Instead of going with the LaTD army list I would go with an Imperial Guard army and have Space Marines as allies, just giving them Chaos-ified gear. Why? Well fluffwise the Shriven didn't seem to use any daemons (except for that one that possesses trooper wussisname) and only had (IIRC) something like three or four marines leading them.

As for the Word Bearer I would put hazard stripes on one of his pauldrons and an Iron Warriors badge on the other. I would also consider incorporating some more silver into the colour scheme.

Sheep

Excited to see you doing some guard related models Tin, and no doubt these will be great as usual, some of the flagellant heads are great for use as shrivelled heads in my opinion.

Tinweasel

Having thought it over (based on your guys' feedback), I've decided to move away from the Iron Warriors and make my own Warband w/ color scheme and fluff and everything. I still plan on using The Shriven, but this time around I guess my thinking is that following the defeat by the Imperial Guard on their original Forge World, there were a lot of remnants that managed to escape and still being fairly well-organized they were traveling as a semi-cohesive whole. Having taken a stab at it and decided I like the Word Bearers paint scheme (and use of demons 'n' such) much better than the Iron Warriors, my actual Chaos Warband will be a "more Chaosy" offshoot of the Word Bearers that has came across the remnants of The Shriven and joined together for their mutual advantage. The Shriven bring their knowledge of warcraft, heavy machinery, and siege defenses/planning, whereas the Warband brings protection, the true power of Chaos, and a mindset that allows The Shriven free reign in their beliefs.

Still hammering out the details, and I'm not sure if I should be posting stuff here or maybe over in Fluff to kick around some ideas - sufficent to say, though, I'd got a tentative color scheme, tentative name, and some halfway fleshed-out backstory.

Here's the most recent WIP of the previous Chaos Marine - decided to abandon the hazard stripes, overly metallic secondary colors, and fully block out the one pauldron and bolter casing in part of the new scheme:


I haven't a clue what color to paint the eye lenses or what I should do for basing. I'm thinking the red Word Bearers armor is fine but the metallic trim could do with one more edge highlight. I also need to finish up a few small details like the horns and the tubing connections on the feet and forearms. I'm also undecided whether I should do with crappy-looking silver or crappy-looking gold for the new Warband colors, so I've left both on this guy. (And yeah, the new color I overpainted with is a dark purple.)

Suggestions and/or comments, please - I'm getting near the end of this guy and running into a mental roadblock.

Sir Plasma

Oh, come on, Tin. Bring back the yellow!

Sir Clausel

its looking damn good!
My favorite chaos chapter is the word bearers so this is very good(though I know its your own sheme but its bloody close!) and I know I have said this before... eliphas! with your converting and paintingskills you would differently do him justice!
anyway just keep up the good work!

Civik

I think yellow would look best for the eyes... as for the trim, go for the happy medium of crappy looking bronze?

From the pic, it just looks like the metallic areas need a bit more definition. But don't take my word for it, you've all seen how bad my paintjobs turn out.

KingOfFools

Damn, it wasn't my intention to bring you away from your original idea, I just wanted to say that it was unusual.

on the other hand, not painting hazard stripes results in much quicker painting.

Tinweasel

So the yellow really stood out, eh? I just went over the whole thing with a dark color for coverage since I already had the hazard striping started, but it just wasn't doing anything for me and I got to thinking about the whole Iron Warriors angle... I guess I just don't like their scheme, really, and I don't want to be doing a bunch of troops in colors I don't care for to correspond with fluff in a book where the whole lot of 'em (Shriven, Iron Warriors, and all) get defeated. So an offshoot warband!

I can't find any closeup pics of Word Bearers so that I can see what color their eyes are "officially" - I'm guessing green, but it was also suggested elsewhere to paint 'em blue. (I'm running a thread over on Bolter & Chainsword, since these are straight-up Chaos troops and I figger they've got the "power armor" angle covered... haven't gotten much in the way of responses at all - very sad.) Maybe a green base up to yellow would look good - "neon green" eyes, maybe?

@ Sir Clausel - I'm basing him in a roundabout way on the WB scheme I did for my Dark Apostle. He seemed to be pretty well received, but there's a lot of stuff I don't like about him now that I did at the time - hindsight being 20/20 and all. I think the paintjob on quite a few areas could've been better. I did like the burgundy armor color I got, though, and the "corroded silver" metallic trim - I'm going for the same here. Maybe I'm just having a "moment," but while the name Eliphas sounds familiar, I can't recall who he is.

@ Civik - Could do yellow for the eyes, yeah. I've always been partial to a sickly greenish glow (Necrotite and Cryx, for you Warmachine fans out there...)

Would you say Bronze is more like the original metal basecoat or my untouched "gold" on the bolter currently? I own GW Dwarf Bronze but the last time I used it, I ended up putting verdigris all over it and it just ended up pretty weathered. I know it's a copper-based metal, kinda orangey? I wouldn't put verdigris on these new guys.

And even if your paintjobs don't always turn out the way you like, that does not disqualify you from making comments about anyone else's stuff with just as much validity as any other painter. Yes, I'd agree, the metals seem to be lacking and I'm thinking I just need to bump up the edge highlighting - or is there something more? Not enough contrast or something?

@ KingOfFools - Your comment on the fluff of WB joining an IW army were valid as well. Ultra-zealous daemon-loving Chaos-suffused madmen joining a rigid, strict, mutation-hating, anti-daemon mechanical-loving sect who happen to now hate the Emperor... doesn't sound so likely when you look at it from a mindset perspective. That, and I want to do mutations and daemons and all kinds of other goodness (time, budget, and finances willing) because that's the aspect of Chaos I like. I think the ties in the Gaunt's Ghost book between the self-corrupting Shriven and the IW were that they were all militarily inclined, but with the Shriven being "defeated," I guess that frees me from those kinda shackles and with the "new and improved" Chaos being focused on Warbands, well, I decided to make my own. Ultra-Chaosy self-corrupting ex-Word Bearers who don't feel that building monuments and converting other people to Chaos worship goes nearly far enough! Yep.

And you're right, hazard stripes are more of a pain in the ass than they're worth, and I much prefer the original WB colors to the whole IW scheme.


I still have no clue how to base these guys... the new scheme is kinda along the same lines, but with dark purple instead of black areas, a more "fleshy" color to the armor, and, um... I'm still working out the rest.

Sir Clausel

Elihpas is the leader of the word bearers in the dark crusade campaign.
here is a pic of him:http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...159410&mode=top
just roll down a bit and click the thumbnail for him

B3NNII

Color scheme looks nice, although I think the armor could do with one more highlight to make it pop a little more. I was thinking, perhaps a white for the eyes? It would look good against the dark red and create a focal point.

Civik

Tin, I like the metal color that's currently on the model, it just needs a bit more definition both ways. A good medium between a bit darker shadows with some brighter edge highlights. Or at least I think so.

The metal just needs to pop a bit more without going too drastic.

Sickly green usually incorporates yellow into it so I'm all for that in the eyes.

The Metallic on the bolter looks a bit too orange, at least from the camera angle in the last pic.

Tinweasel

Here's the finished figure (aside from basing and DullCote):


Anyone notice anything I've missed on or with the figure? Aside from the dark purple shoulder pad and bolter casing, I was aiming for pretty much a straight-up Word Bearers scheme.

Tinweasel

Any suggestions on something fairly straightforward I could do for basing? I generally use dirt-like basing for my troops but for this Chaos stuff I think I'd like to try something a little fancier (but not "over the top") so far as base decoration. I'd also like to keep it "outdoorsy" but the color scheme is kinda irrelevant so long as it goes with the current figure (I figger the new Warband scheme isn't too far off from it).

Rubble? Concrete? Rocky ground? Dunno. Reference pics or links to good articles for this sort of thing would be good. I'm really undecided as to what to do, other than thinking I'd like to get away from the dirt/ash thing that I've been doing with my other finished troops...

[MaGiC]

go for a wasteland look and perhaps add some bones or/and some desert bushing

Colonel Temp

you could do ruined urban?
if your interested i can post a link to an article on the subject

Sir Clausel

much love for that marine there! for the base... hmmm... maybe some vulcanic wastelands?
anyway that is one nice looking red! how did you do it?

Civik

Wasteland Ash would be something interesting to see. Mostly because it might contrast best with the figure. While Volcanic would look cool, there might be too much red in the mag-ma.

Maybe some desert? I'm not sure if it would contrast enough with the figure though.

From GW website on Basing bikes:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/...ing/bases/1.htm

Ap0k

You could be adventurous and have them standing ankle deep in water/on marshy or sewery riverbanks

Actually, no you can't. That's my idea. You can't steal it you thief!

Tinweasel

@ colonel temp - Ruined urban sounds good... if you have a good link to an article on it, by all means please post it!


@ Sir Clausel - Well, like I've said, I was trying to keep to a similar scheme as my previous Word Bearers Dark Apostle, only simplifying things greatly so far as steps and colors. I've hit the metallics more or less dead on, I think, but my original Apostle red was a bit darker and I think I like it a little more - on the other hand, I ended up having to go a lot higher in terms of highlights and then wash it back down shade-wise a hair. At least with this new scheme everything's balanced out start-to-finish without having to go back over things. (I also learned my lesson and made sure I started with a basecoat having good coverage - man, repainting layer after layer to get an even basecolor before was such a drag!)

I basecoated him with 1:1 Mechrite Red/Scorched Brown, then gave the whole thing a shading wash (especially the crevices) of 1:1 Red Gore/Chaos Black at about 1:8 paint/thinner consistency. I tidied up with 1:1 Red Gore/Scorched Brown at 1:4 consistency - this was actually one of the primary colors in the old figure and it turns out to be a hair darker than the Mechrite Red mixture but with good enough coverage to even out any uneven spots shade-wise on the armor panels following the shading wash. I worked up to highlights adding in 2 drops of Red Gore, so that upper-facing areas were obviously lighter than areas I wanted left in shadow. The only actual highlight was 1:1 Red Gore/Blood Red @ 1:4 consistency, and I did an extreme edge highlight in just a few select sharp faces (and the top of the one shoulder pad) with pure Blood Red @ 1:4 paint/thinner.

Still a few more steps than I'd really care to keep to, but still manageable I suppose for an "army quality" figure. I'll probably keep tweaking the recipe a bit, maybe start it out a bit darker yet.


@ Civik - Good link! I actually hadn't seen all the bases they did when the article first came out, and I got to thinking that maybe an urban/city street base might be some nice variety. Seeing as how this guy's already glued down, I'll probably keep it fairly simple, but I'm open to suggestions on how to base rubble and such so it looks convincing. I've got a lot more sprue now than when I first started out that I could cut down and carve into building bits.



I like the volcanic wastelands idea, but I've been doing my Necrons in what I could picture being a similar ash grey scheme. Short of painting lava pools (which I think would be overly red given the reddish/burgundy armor of the Warband) I don't think it's lively enough.

So far as desert, I've always liked the "dry lake bed" look and it's more easily done with thin sheets of baked Sculpey than the GS shown in the GW Bike Basing article, but that involved baking, breaking, and reassembling lots of epoxy clay pieces, and that's a little more involved than I'd care to get at this point. Well, that and a desert scheme would be mostly brownish (or red-brown) and I think I have the brown angle covered with the troops already. Maybe if I start up another army I'll never end up finishing?


@ Ap0k - You can have your idea and keep it. I think I did my fair share of water basing with my Chaos Sorceror's swamp display base, and I still need to go back when I reclaim him from the display case at the local GW store and add some more layers of water. If I was going for ankle-deep, I'd likely need to start at the knees to allow for settling. No thanks!!

Civik

The best articles for putting together urban rubble I think come from Finescale modeling... but even then it's mostly WWII subjects so it might look odd depending on how it's done.

Some reference photos... we sometimes forget the amount of paperwork and records which are likely to come out of ruined buildings in urban centers. From WTC site:

http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/histor...York_photos.htm

Random bits of paper or parchment lying on the ground along with rubble might help give it the effect of a destroyed urban environment.

Also:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spec...ftermath_3.html

Unfortunately I'm sure there are lots of photographs which can help give references for this since it was such a recent event.

I'll look up some more in a bit.

misterjustin

Been lurking on this one for a long time now...

I really like this marine and think you did a nice job pulling off the Word Bearers look. Well shaded, especially.

As for basing -- I'm always a fan of ruined floors and/or rubble, myself. Outdoorsy... well...

How about a standard grass and gravel base -- with smouldering footsteps? This would give you the chance to combine a couple of basing techniques. You could even add in brown grass around the footsteps to help set it apart from the normal green.

"And where we walk we shall remake this world!"

Seems like the sort of thing a crazy Chaplain would say.

Ghost_Maker

With the basing, if the Gaunt's Ghosts Shriven idea has gone out the window, I suggest quite bare metal flooring or something similar to represent a factory floor or something similar. You could paint lines marking out safety zones or any other things in factories.
If you are sticking with the green industrailised rubber Shriven of Gaunt's Ghosts fame, then I suggest the mud, blood and stagnant water of the trenches on Fortis Binary. So a light coloured mud base, with the boots and legs of the shriven muddied, and using green stuff, have them sinking into the muck.

Tinweasel

I appreciate the links and discussion on urban rubble - I think that's the basing theme I'm going to run with and I can probably cover a lot of different scenery types just within that theme. When the time comes (ideally) to gather all the troops together on a display/carrying base or something, then I can have a mixture of different patches of ground - rocky rubble, broken tarmac streets, muddy filth, chemical ooze, etc. The link to the GW bikes basing page was a good source of inspiration, especially the roadway stuff.

Here's the current basing:

I went with something similar to the cracked street bike base, I guess, but Civik's links were just so thematic I had to include some burned paper on the base. (Very sad, but thematic, I should say...) Something about the white road striping is bothering me, though - I don't think I made it patchy enough or something? Any ideas?

@ misterjustin - I guess when I meant "outdoorsy" I was kinda trying to get across "basing that is not specifically indoors" - like iron mesh, or riveted deck plate - that sort of thing. While I really like the idea of smoldering footsteps in the grass, one difficulty might be that I don't actually own any scenic grass flocking. I don't much care for GW's stuff as I've never liked the red fibers mixed in by default (makes no sense to me whatsoever and yeah, I could probably pick 'em out, but that'd just be wierdly obsessive) and the only stuff I've seen locally are the big tubs of Woodland Scenics for $12 - I'd have to buy a couple of 'em so I could mix and match colors for a more realistic look and, well, I haven't yet been able to wrap my head around shelling out $36-$48 for some grass on a base.

Do you think a Word Bearers offshoot Legion/warband would have Apostles? I hadn't really considered how I was going to approach leadership and such - I'm still at the "can I make an Aspiring Champion out of the bitz I've got" stage.

@ Ghost Maker - Nope, haven't abandoned The Shriven theme at all. That's pretty much my whole reason for getting caught up in modeling/painting Chaos stuff at all, I've just gotten a little sidetracked with the release of the new Chaos Codex and how I'm going to fit The Shriven in with an appropriate Chaos accompaniment seeing as how Lost and the Damned rules are no more and (having just got it in the mail yesterday) Apocalypse has nothing to fill the void short of me getting a 3k point army together (not likely to happen any time soon). Anyhow, I'm envisioning a display base for all the troops with a combination of mud, rubble, ruined buildings, etc. I don't think I'd like to do trenches and duckboards specifically because the color scheme I'm thinking of for my Shriven conversions is all earth tones and so I think I'll skip straight-up mud everywhere. (Mix it in with other stuff, ya know?)



I'm trying to decide on a name for the Warband - I'm thinking something along the lines of "The Harbingers of The Four" or "Harbingers of the Dark Gods" or something. I'm open to suggestions and I'd really like feedback. I've got a fluff thread over in the relevant Forum and any input would be good, because I'm not really up on any of the Chaos backstories and themes and such - it's just recently that I've gotten into it:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=165795


I came up with a tentative icon for the troops and I'd really like feedback or ideas as to how to improve on it, or if it's good, or what...
<image of 4 circles arranged touching each other in an 'X' shape>

I kinda want something maybe reminiscent of the Word Bearers (happy little demon skull with flames in the background) while at the same time tying it in with the (tentative) name of the warband and the fluff I've got going for it. I'd of course tidy up and darken the edges of the flames, but I'm not even sure what color to make 'em. (I've never actually seen a GW Word Bearers decal in the flesh, for example.) Also, maybe I should go with spiked brass circles or solid ones?

I dunno - all I know is that I'm going to make a template of the final version to make for easier detail painting once I've got something solid that comes across as "cool."

Sir Clausel

well an idea for the icon could be instead of the 4 circles just to paint each of the marks in it? I know its gonna be small but it would look awsome!

Ap0k

I'm honestly not a big fan of the name at the minute. The whole 'harbingers of X' or 'angels of Y' or 'lords of Z' thing gets a bit stale when every chapter is a heroically named son of an ancient god who smote in the name of glory and mercy and suchlike.

At the end of the day of course, it's entirely up to you, but how about something a bit more sinister like 'Section Four'? It opens up the backstory a bit in that it could mean a secret organisation on the planet, a simple case of the area the surviving workers hailed from, or a more brooding secret police type atmosphere. It's a bit less generic and raises a few more questions as to the 'why?' behind the name, which not only gives you options as far as backstory goes, but ties in to the secretive and insidious nature of chaos cults.

On the logo itself, I'm not getting any positive or negative vibes from it at the minute. The circles in the middle seem a bit bland, but if you mixed it up so you had one large circle with a few pointy bits, and 3 other smaller circles touching it's edge at random points, it might give it a bit more life. I think the main problem at the minute is that it looks too organised, and hasn't got enough pointy to identify it strongly with chaos. Symbolism wise, the big circle represents the core toughness and strength of the marine section of the army, while the minor circles represent the various joined factions of the old world in sight of a common goal.

Or something.

Civik

I think the only problem with the white stripe is that you really don't have a good reference for why the colo(u)r changed.

Perhaps if the stripe was a bit thinner on the front of the base, it would probably look more like a painted line in a road. Most roadway stripes in the US are rarely thicker than 6"... it might just help it to have the line a bit thinner and the concrete base color on the opposite side of it.

Other than that, a display base for an entire army would probably provide sufficient reference for the basing to look fine. Freakin awesome paintjob as per usual Tin.

As for names, going on the four theme, "Harbingers of the Apocalypse" perhaps? Since the four horsemen (or four chaos gods) were the signs of impending doom...

HotA for short. Cause god knows that's a long name!

They could have four horseheads within the flames... two right side up facing L/R and two upside down facing L/R. Or just a single horse skull on top of the flame motif.

Tinweasel

@ Sir Clausel - Yeah, that'd be a helluva a custom Legion icon... but a little too involved for me, methinks. It takes me long enough to finish stuff as-is, and I'm only stringing this guy out while I try and nail down an icon and name for the army. He'll be the 2nd figure I've ever actually put a Chapter/Legion symbol on! Woohoo!

@ Ap0k - I see your point and it does sound a little melodramatic and overly long. I'm scraping for something to get across the fact that they're ultra-zealous and just don't think the Word Bearers go nearly far enough in their faith and worship of the Chaos Gods, but not to the point where it sounds too pompous. Good ideas on the icon! It got me to thinking...

@ Civik - So far as the pavement, I was intending it to look like the wide white strip you'd come across at like an intersection or stop sign instead of a narrow lane divider. You're right, though, a good scenic base would probably clear things up (eventually).

The name "Harbingers of The Four" got me thinking about going the Apocalyptic route, only that's kinda opposite the way these Chaos guys probably would be thinking. Apocalypse implies something "bad," whereas the takeover of the universe by the Chaos Gods would be right up these guys alley - something extra-"good."



I've redesigned the army icon and name, lemme know what you guys think:

It's the same brassy silver color as the current Marine's trim overlaid on a background color-matched to the current shoulder pad.

How's about calling them "The Devoted"? I haven't come across that one yet in any of the Chapter/Legion name catalogs or on a search of the 'Net. I think it gets across perfectly the theme I'm aiming for, while at the same time sounding mysterious and thought-provoking... (Granted, not as mysterious as "Section Four" but it might just do the trick?)

Tinweasel

Put in some extra work tonight to tidy up a few things based on feedback from over on the B&C, more or less nitpicky stuff, but since I'm unsure about an icon for the guy and was having a crappy night I decided to do some painting to relax.



I'd especially like feedback on the icon design and army name stuff from my previous post, but if you guys notice anything glaring that needs fixing on him I'd likewise appreciate it being pointed out. I'm thinking I'm going to enter him in an online "Chaos" painting competition I just recently found out about (due tomorrow).

I also found a new way of highlighting reds that I'm hoping isn't over the top, and added it in on some of the extreme edges of this guy. I also tried Krylon Matte Lacquer Sealer Spray for the first time - the spray's a hair satiny finish-wise, but it's a much better value for the size of the can than DullCote!

B3NNII

Yeah the red looks awesome, you can see the difference immediately, I think it looks alot smoother and pops a little more.

Can you paint a Blood Raven some time?

monkian

How about 'The Chosen' or 'Te Deum' - which roughlt means 'Hymn of God'

I think something along these lines would be good as they are the 'holy' warriors of Chaos

Sir Clausel

Awsome red there!
that new icon is just not saying anything to me. I kinda think that it needs a flame behind it.
Maybe Im just seeing him as a Word bearers marine instead of a warband marine. If he shouldnt be a word bearer he needs more that make you not think word bearers ie more of the purple maybe?

Leunam

The thing about the line on the road: You have a piece of rubble on top of the line, but it looks like whoever painted the stripe painted it after a battle and didn't bother removing the rubble.

Looks good otherwise.

Tinweasel

@ B3NNII - A Blood Raven? More or less the same color scheme, isn't it?

@ monkian - The Chosen's got possibilities. I wish there was one name that people seemed to favor over the others, given the fluff - "Harbingers of The Four" (as in Gods of Chaos), "The Devoted" (as in wholly given themselves body and essence to Chaos), and possibly "The Chosen" (as in they see themselves hand-picked by the Chaos Gods to demonstrate their power incarnate). Damn, why do all the simple names have to be taken and have good fluff behind them?

Doesn't "Te Deum" mean - "For you (my) God"? Latin's cool, but it doesn't address the Gods (plural). That and I think after so many millennia, they're try and distance themselves away from the High/Low Gothic-speak of the Imperium. Good idea, though, just doesn't quite fit.

@ Sir Clausel - Having bought a box of Possessed and actually having seen a Chaos Legion decal in the flesh, I'm thinking the less I have to hand-paint in detail on every single troop, the better. I'm planning on coming up with a template of sorts to speed up the process, but I'm going to have to hand-carve it, so bunches of circles or something simple is going to have to be it. I think the plain 4 circles (colored to represent the 4 Chaos Gods or no) just doesn't seem "Chaosy" enough, hence the spikes.

So far as the color and this being my first stab at an inducted Chaos Marine, I was thinking the warband-colored weapons and icon shoulderpad would do it. You're probably right, though - maybe the alternate greave in purple for any more of them?

@ Leunam - The pic probably isn't clear enough, but I was following one of the Bike basing tutorials for inspiration. It's actually not a piece of rubble, it's the asphalt roadway itself broken upwards - hence the previously existing road marking broken and angled up along with it.


And now, a real reason for an update:

*rawr*


First stab at an Aspiring Champion that's fully a Devoted Harbinger of the Four Chosen - kinda tricky putting stuff together reasonably well when you know the look you're aiming for but all you have are bitz. He still needs GS, spikes, and likely a bolter growing out from the back of the fist. Call him Sammael, maybe?

I'd really appreciate comments on the overall appearance/presentation - he's not glued together completely so that he can't be tweaked a bit.