UberBugz

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Warnstaff

Horray! Someone who actually knows how to code AI actively coding ToV's AI! I might be able to retire as well...

Uber, anything you need that I can provide, let me know
Ok, I know it's not gonna be much given my lack of ability, but still...

Koinonos

He mentioned on the old thread that he as a pretty decent TOV AI in beta shape. I'll bet if you IM'd him he would be glad to share his code (which is really an overhaul of the older Warnstaff AI code to get it into TOV shape).

Just a thought,
Koinonos
Richland, WA

sweeten2213

I'll be watching this thread to see what I can steal

Good to see you modding Uber.

Let me know if you want any of my latest - it's particular to our mod, but a lot of the stuff is universal.

UberBugz

Warnstaff,



Heh, if you've truly become tired of maintaining a mod so many have used, then exit stage left. I probably would (Take the chance to get out of ingine territory while you can). And be sure to point a finger at me and laugh as you go, because you know I'm going to inherit a crap load of mod related problems.

Even if you do retire, your ideas and suggestions are still needed. After all, you and fenwe started all this.

--

Sweeten,



Are you sure the roles won't be reversed? Where I'm the one stealing from N44 when I finally get it all DL,d? Which reminds me, I need to add your name to the credits list just in case

Anyway, it doesn't matter. So long as we get a better game...

--

Koinonos,

Sure, anyone who is familiar with Warnstaffs mod is free to contribute. However, this AI mod is being started from scratch.

Warnstaff

I ain't retiring until this mod has its first release at the minimum

Besides, I don't like leaving messes without at least trying to clean them up

General McPoop

This is great news, since I do have some questions about some of the little things you changed.

Hopefully at some point you or someone finds a definitive way to fix (as in FIX FIX) the call in spam because right now that is the only thing that really plagues my current beta of the mod for example even with 01setup limits set the ai still will wait to call in 3 rangers in a row instead of building mixed units unless I set the time it waits to build units to literally zilch, which then conversley makes the ai almost completley ignore units like pershing/tiger becasue it won't wait until it has 900 MP to build them.

It just messes things up quite annoyingly right now.

BlackOmne

What about hard caps on most units and thus preventing it from spamming any particular unit and forcing it into building a combined arms force? That was a key feature of Warnstaff's mod. I dont' trust or like the demand system that the AI seems to have. Putting in hard caps tends to rein in the demand system from going crazy.

EDIT:
Also, hopefully you can do something to kill the suicide runs by weapon teams (running across the map to attack the enemy base). Warnstaff had some success with this (but not complete - still see it sometimes with his mod, moreso with the latest build).

sweeten2213

Of course there are several ways to go about it, but check out the top of the new sbps files in the ai_info section. They (weapons teams likes mortars and snipers) have a 0.8 in an undesignated by Corsix field (all other squads have a 0). I've been wavering on using it for mg teams, but our mg's seem to be going OK without it ATM.

It's funny - you mentioned the KISS method - somehow I always find my AI intertwined and complicated while simplistic at the same time.

It's also funny how when you really look at it, there was just so much stuff left out for no apparent reason.

BTW - Uber, my ai files (and the whole mod's ai in general) has made many strides since that release I broke down for ya.

When we have another official release, I'll break it down again. If you want any files til then let me know.

Not that you probably haven't forgotten more than I know about coding

UberBugz

BlackOmne,



I don't much like it either. If fact, with TOV 2.500, it appears someone at relic doesn't like it all that much either because some units are getting extra code to err, get a jump on the dynamic AI. This illustrates a problem with the AI. It's far too generalized. Some units are only good against certain others, the AI doesn't really take that into consideration all too well... What's a sniper? infantry! What's an engineer? infantry! What's a mortor? infantry? Is an engineer a good counter against a mortor or a sniper? More often then not, the AI actually thinks it is. I could go on, but you get the picture.

Anyway, with 2.500, I'm going to hold off on adding any kind of 'forced' army building. Besides, wasn't this aspect of warnstaffs work the most tricky thing to get right?. I also recall it got a good bit of complaints along the way as well. Can't please them all.

Suicide weapons teams? With 2.500, the mortor teams are annoyingly effective. I don't think they need any help.

--

Sweeten,



You may be on to something here. What else do these two units tend to do that no other unit does? Yep, run like hell when they get shot at. Maybe this is some sort of retreat override. Have you tried it with other squad types? If this is all true then I need to update my mod studio keys file. Maybe I'll call it "Retreat_Override"?

And yes, it does seem shameful relic left out so much for SP skirmish game play. Although, I'll bit my lip and say that many of the abilities were clearly designed for human vs human play. Probably why they left them disabled. Still the PE scout car should have been handled from day one...

BTW - You've been a busy bee with that N44 'strat_def_purchase.ai' file now haven't you.

As for the KISS method, it should work just fine for anyone wanting a drop in AI replacement for a new mod. Nothing too fancy here... Unless I can use code and not the *.rgd method.

sweeten2213

You should see it now



Wait...I am....um, I mean [clears throat] Yes, I am

It definately has those units acting smarter, keeping their distance, etc... As far as a retreat override - very well could be. i was also looking at it as sort of a caution/keep your distance meter. Who knows, but it seems to work.

I also don't recall if they had "special unit types" in the old vanilla AI, but it's there now (in squad_ai_ext). They have one for goliath, immobile, leader, mobiletruck (which is where the annoying new code for Brit truck placement seems to be), and sniper.

I've been thinking of digging into that code and seeing if I can't create some of my own (that is if I can find it).

I also wish I knew what 0xC896CB37 was in squad_ai_ext - it seems to be the same for all squads, but i wonder if something good could be done with it.

This should be a fun thread.

Warnstaff

Well, in my defense, the AI ignored me when I tried asking it to not spam engineers...

UberBugz

How so? Like a cat plays with a mouse before it eats it? Or a spider wraping up its prey before sucking all the life from it?

Anyway, I just gave my rifleman squads a 0.9 value in that unknown key, and they all retreated immediately when they came under fire. Even those that where in the process of capping a point. Do rifleman squads have a special unit type? Nope! But they still ran like hell. I'm calling it a 'retreat_overide' until someone else mentions *exactly* what it is.

Key 0xC896CB37, I labeled that 'teamweapon_capture_tactic' in the mod studio. I'm pretty sure you know why.

General McPoop

Any luck at all on getting the ai not to obsess over unit call-in like rangers and stormtroopers? Even if I hard limit say rangers to 4 then the AI will call in ranger after ranger after ranger after ranger so it literally is a no win scenario unless it is fixed entirely.

I am currently taking pot shots at it day in a day out, but I can only do so much banal testing with pathetic results per day before I get burnt out and my video game ADD kicks in and it is off to play another game.

sweeten2213

I was thinking more like the human that watches both scenerios with a s*&t eatinn grin

Very nice move with that retreat move finding.

Like I said earlier - I will most assuredly be lurking here learning from one of the masters

adecoy95

will your ai mod remove the cheat the ai does with fog of war?

UberBugz

General McPoop,



If you have another game in mind, you might want to side-step the ADD thing and go play that game. Call-in production units have hurt the AI for years and still does. Apparently, only a handful of people have a problem with this, else relic might have tried fixing this. I used the scar method because I wanted more control then hard capping an ability with something like a max squad requirement. An example might be when the AI lost the HQ, and had plenty of resources. Until the HQ gets rebuilt, spew rangers or churchhills to no end. When the HQ is no longer a wreck, clamp down on the unit limits again.

Anyway, my answer is... Nope!. At least not yet.

--

adecoy95,



You're kidding right? I want the AI to behave better, not dumber. No. In fact, this mod will give the AI all kinds of cheats.

General McPoop

Well, I will continue to plug away at it and hope someday I might brainstorm some genius and yet simplistic solution to the call in spam. Too many of my ideas have sunk worse then the titanic though and each testing "phase" tends to be annoyingly time consuming extensive.

I look at CPT Combats code and even to this day it blows me away and I cannot fathom most of it otherwise I would try and implement it. It is only harder to do now with all the new versions making it very difficult to port over his call in limiting code and have it working properly, but his solution might be only one of a couple that could work.

Twitchy

I know Sweeten and SIG's Mod has been doing VERY Well even with setbacks, With some of the best Coders and such all putting their minds together, I'm sure you guys can get alot of things fixed. : D

Warnstaff

Please, please don't use health bonuses.

Twitchy

Gah, Hate those.

UberBugz

General McPoop,



As of COHOF 2.301, Cpt.Combats method is (I think) the only method I know of to really clamp down on the call in units. It required a second set of ability files and a crap load of supporting code to make it all work. Not sure if that method even works now.

"...but his solution might be only one of a couple that could work..." Let me know when you find what that solution is. I'm not giving up on this just yet. I've some ideas. None of which are simple!

--

Warnstaff,

Give me some bloody credit will ya? AI health bonuses never crossed my mind. Taint going to happen! Ever!

--

Twitchy,



Indeed, name some of the best AI coders working with N44?

--

Lastly, does anyone actually pay attention to my list of crap I keep updating on that first page? Why is it when I edit that page it doesn't get bumped up. Am I missing something?

sweeten2213

I do, but when you edit it won't bump it.



Uber was a big help to our AI, as well as some of the others listed above (like AGame and Warnstaff)

BlackOmne

Uberbugz,
Could you give us an initial build or mod that only does one thing? Remove the health bonuses on Expert.

I finally broke down and allowed my game to patch once the 2.6 patch was released. I now see why everybody was saying the vanilla AI was greatly improved over 2.4-2.5. The thing is I played an Expert AI for the first time last night on Flooded Plains, and I won (barely - very tough fight though) but I found it absurd how hard it was to kill expert AI units ... and I knew the reason why the whole time ... the health bonus.

Otherwise, the Expert AI (US in this case) played fairly well. It spammed jeeps (I'm initially OK with that since it effectively counters my opening strategy of spamming pios to cut off portions of the map to funnel the AI into killing zones) and rangers (which does make things a bit tougher but I know how to deal with rangers). After removing the Expert health bonus (or perhaps greatly lowering it - to about 1.1 as an alternative), the next thing I would suggest to change is the AI's strong love of VPs. After two games so far in 2.6, I've noticed that the AI immediately rushes for VPs instead of securing high/medium points. Lower the AI's priority for VPs.

Perhaps, you could take an incremental approach to building this mod. Give us the health bonus reduction/removal first, followed by VP priority thing and then other individual or couple fixes at a time (as you get them to work), building a foundation of simple but working fixes over time moving toward the harder fixes like perhaps capping the call-ins.

UberBugz

Speaking of updates, I just updated TOV to 2.6 so I'm going to try and get a simple release uploaded this weekend. Don't expect anything fancy, just some simple changes I think the basic relic provided AI needed.

@BlackOmne,

I'm not so sure health bonuses are added for skirmish games, but I did drop the values in tuning.rgd to 1.0 all around for safety sake. As for VP importance, much of that depends on what build order was chosen at start up. Some faction build orders push the VP_multiplier up quite a bit across most of the individual build order directives. Others, like the PE for example, have no VP_mult, or that value is set to lessen VP importance. Try a game against PE and see if they love Vpoints.

--

Lastly, to anyone in the know... Can I change the title of this thread?. I think naming this mod "Improved_Basic_AI_Mod" would be more appropriate.

sweeten2213

Yes you can - just edit your first post and change the title to what u want

General McPoop

I think I have made a little progress on putting control over the call-in spam by using a wacky idea. It might or might not work out in the end, but so far I am testing it and it is working pretty well, the computer for wehr-blitz and ameri-infantry got a lot better now that they aren't obsessed with storm/ranger and don't sit around waiting to build them all the time when they have reached the cap.

UberBugz

Thanks for mentioning that sweeten!

BlackOmne

I don't see the Expert health bonus removal in the 0.99D features. Are they in or out?

Will try it as soon as I can.

tankdestroyer

Does anybody know if the Tovs make the ai use the boby trap ability and the berger recover ability? I have 2.301 and i made some code for it and i would like to share it if necesary.

UberBugz

Yep, that's it for the time being. Consider this mod on vacation until I can get enough cash scrapped together to fix my gaming machine. As it stands, I'm using a friends machine and a live puppy linux CD to write this. Luckily, I don't see any corruption on my other HDs [The one with COHTOV at least.] As for winXP? Well, we all know what happens when a major piece of hardware goes belly up, right? Yep, re-install everything from scratch.

I'm going to try and put a copy of the mod on file-front. But don't expect much in way better AI. I haven't really worked on it all that much since my last post.

Angelic

NOOO!!!!.... thats horrible for you and the A.I of course... i wish i'd know how to customise the A.I ...

UberBugz

Nevermind...

Since when did file-front start requiring a flash plug-in to upload? This must have happened somewhat recently, because I recall uploading something for the corsix mod studio and I didn't need some stupid plugin to do it.

Anyway, I've never used the flash plugin [avoiding all websites that do], and never will.

Anyone know a place to host a meager 5-10 MB file for free and without any hassles?

Warnstaff

www.filefront.com

Been working for me for 3 or 4 years now. They just don't like password files though.

UberBugz

http://www.filefront.com/user/UberBugz

Hopefully, I built the archive properly and it works for you lucky bastards that can play games.

One thing I need to point out is that the mighty Relic strikes again. It seems AI players aren't defined until frame 1. So I had to add a oneshot rule to make the AI players use or not use the new TOV units. Also, I half-assedly mucked around with how some these units are used by the AI. You can turn off the code by disabling the OneShot rule in UBZsetup.scar.

Anyway, if you have a suggestion or question reply here. I'll have my machine fixed soon enough. And then... Time to hit this mod hard!

Thanks

UberBugz

Well, it looks like some people have Dl'd the mod. Did it work? I'd assume as much since no one complained.

Anyway, that version isn't complete. At the time my CPU lost its mind, I was working on better AI reinforcement code. If the AI had enough spare manpower at the time, the total reinforce tasks would increase. If the AI had a huge stockpile of manpower, reinforce tasks would be unlimited. If none of the above, a more conservative number would be used.

What I uploaded has none of my new code and instead relies on a more conservative task number. Not only that, my code also updates the demand for reinforce units based on the above criteria. More Manpower, more demand to reinforce instead of building a new unit.

Sigh, I can't test this stuff just yet. PM me if ya want to... Simple cut/copy/paste will do it.

Thanks,

Warnstaff

Bear in mind a lot of people are still coming back from the July 4th celebrations, and those that aren't effected (i.e. me, as a Canadian) have been busy. At least I'll have some free time tomorrow.... or so my unpredictable and very strange schedule says right now.

shippo kitsune

Well, I downloaded the mod yesterday and played with it... at least, I think I played with it. I haven't played Company of Heroes for about 8 months, so this is what I put in my target line.

"C:\Program Files (x86)\THQ\Company of Heroes\RelicCOH.exe" -w -win -window -windowed -dev -mod IMP_Aai_Mod -modname IMP_Aai_Mod -nomovies
(I use windowed mode, in case you can't tell. )

Anyways, the AI was a lot harder than I remember it ever being before. Out of about 4 matches yesterday I never won on hard. (I don't play too aggressively, though. So maybe that's why. I like to defend my base. )

I don't have Tales of Valor, I only have CoH+CoH:OF... but I noticed that the AI used the reward units even though I can't... so that was cool!

How can I tell for sure that I'm using the mod correctly? I didn't see anything on the main menu that would indicate that it was active. Anyways, I'm pretty sure I'm using it correctly because the hard AI is kicking my butt.

Thanks for the awesome AI, guys! If you want me to try anything out or test anything I'd be glad to.

Edit: I just had a 2 hour battle as British one some small/medium 1 on 1 map with a hard AI. I was defending half the map for awhile, and during one point there was a period of five minutes or so where nothing happened... then I saw a king tiger that distracted me as 4 or so other tanks attacked my other front with infantry. 30 minutes later I was dead. =( This new AI is sooo awesome!

Something that I noticed that was pretty cool was that they AI ran when they saw my "fake artillery smoke" as the British. I remember the last time I played (8 months ago or so) the AI would just ignore it and just KNOW that it's fake.. so that was cool and useful.

Oh, and the AI did a very good job at attacking in group vs. sending one unit at a time.

And they upgraded their unit's experience, which wound up making them very hard in late-game.

I don't know if that's normal or something added by this mod, but all of it is sweet.

Edit 2: I beat the hard AI today after a one hour 40 minute battle. Only problem I noticed was that eventually they all got stuck up on one point and didn't move away from it till I destroyed most of the units there. I don't know why that happened. After that they played like normal, though.

grahamwookie

Like with Cpt.Combats mod, the combined arms did appear to be a tactic which the AI used (at times).
Has anybody seen this happen in this mod?

I'm sure looking forward to this mod as the mod of of all mods... the god of mods and one that made Relics AI guys sweat and fear for there jobs ;-)

Hey, would we see the AI use arti slightly more than they do? I play CoH quite a bit and I've not seen the AI use ANY arti in months. It's true! The US Ai would be best using this weapon.

DMz

wer vetted all theyre units to vet 3 pe used hotchkiss and i was hit by several combined arms attacks took just under 2 hours to beat 2 experts ,plus wer even had the cheek to bring on its rebuild off map engies and volks plus officer, which ive never seen it do once its base has been destroyed, very good mod.

grahamwookie

Hi, I tried this mod briefly this morning, and then my baby daughter cried and that was that...switch off ;-)

Look good though, on the BowLowlands, the Brits immediately showed up with squads of infantry (lieutenants attached) on both my flanks, supported by mortor emplacements... Looking good.

How do we know that the mod is running, I've made sure the mod name it called in the shortcut from the launcher exe?

Thanks Mr. UberBugz for making CoH more and more enjoyable.

Edit: I just played the CoH demo which was downloaded back in the days. The combined forces feel the AI had was amazing. It used arti against me whilst taking points and assembly areas before attacks. Panzer grenadiers fought alongside stugs, flame halftracks come straight at my infantry and AT positions. Oh Oh Oh the battle was a great one.

Seyal

Way back in 1.6 the way I halted it for a mod my friend and I play is to set a requirement that less than X have to be on the field (for that player) at the time.

It worked well. No idea if it works now (just trying to get back into the game/modding it) and I don't have ToV.

The demand system doesn't seem to apply for call-ins for some odd reason. Honestly, I wish they'd just do away with units as "powers" and just make them accessible like regular units (once the CP "power" has been learned) and apply the regular limits/code to them.

UberBugz

Good news for me... I'm getting the fastest AMD CPU to fit my MB. Nope, not the AMD2 socket, but the last thing MB builders created before the new CPU socket. Huh?

Anyway, I suspect I'll get this chip installed this weekend. Unless something really bad happens...

@Seyal

The demand system works up until the AI actually builds a unit like rangers. You can keep rangers from being built. But once the AI spews the ranger unit, it won't stop doing so. Ever. Not ever. So here we are with TOV 2.6 and the same crap still happens.

One question I have for you is this: How would you deal with paratroopers? Kinda silly if they spawned from a barracks. Likewise, the axis also had limited paratroop units as well.

If you can tell my how to side step this stuff, I'll rewrite the AI files to handle this. I'm tired of dealing with production abilities that can't be controlled.

Rangers? Do online shmucks actually wait to produce an army of rangers? Really?

[shrug]

BlackOmne

So, it's all (spam call-ins) or nothing (no call-ins)? In that event, I would favor no call-ins over letting the AIs spam them. I think a well-balanced combined-arms force of standard, non-doctrine units would be better than ending up (after all early units get killed off) with an army comprised of a singular type (even when that special unit is pretty good).

Seyal

Actually the limitations DO work in 2.6!

All you have to do is make one of the requirements a "max_squad_cap" I think it's called.

I would look at how Captains and Lieutenants are restricted. It's the same concept.

For example, one of my requirements for Rangers (attrib/abilities/ally_reinforcements_ability_rangers.rgd) is:

max_squad_cap: 5
reason: usage
sbps: sbps\races\allies\soldiers\ranger_team.lua

Then I made an entry in my .ucs for the mod so the restriction text shows up in-game.

grahamwookie

Any further work doen on this mod Mr. UberBugz?

UberBugz

Howdy all,

Well, after getting the CPU in and re-installing XP, ( I'm really hating windows now[always did]), it looks like I did a decent job. Part of the CPU burn in was me playing the default COHTOV AI [2.600] with max graphics, over and over. I suppose by now, I'm kinda used to the stock AI behaviour. When I finally played my version, I had forgot about the abilities I'd enabled for the AI. Heh, my king tiger was buttoned by bren squads just long enough for piat sappers to show up on the small angoville map. That kinda hurt pretty bad. I guess I forgot about mucking around with the squad upgrades as well.

Anyway, I suppose it's time again to work on this mod. Or kick it to the curb... I'm still having trouble getting the brit AT gun to use the facing ability. Prior to 2.5/2.6, this was never a problem. In fact, when I patched COH to COHOF 2.301 [took about 2 hours to do so], and played my personal mod, the brit AT guns were down right deadly. They turned and fired as expected. When I updated with COHTOV 2.5/2.6, something must have changed. The same AI tactics code I used before doesn't work. The AT guns don't rotate to face an enemy. This is a deal breaker... Sure, the brit AI tends to be weak at game start, but a couple of rotating AT gun nests towards mid to late game can hurt the human player. I'm not sure I can go any further with this mod until I figure this out.

--

@Seyal

The problem isn't with restricting call-in abilities (N44 did a fine job there). The problem is that the AI is obsessed with using these abilities beyond the demand system. This is why you end up seeing nothing but Rangers towards mid to late game. Even if you set the demand for a unit production ability to -99999 after the first one is spawned, the AI keeps spamming the unit. Ever seen a game where you had 3 or more StugH running around? And then, kill one, and another takes its place, almost immediately. By that time, you probably noticed there wasn't a lot of axis infantry running around. You'd also notice that just a few ally squads can snag most of the axis map rather quickly, because there isn't real pop for the AI to build infantry to take back the points.

--

@BlackOmne

If there is anyone that knows what I'm talking about I'd think it was you. Its not really all or nothing when it comes to call-in production units. I think they have value, its just they need to be controlled beyond a cap limit. Also, a basic combined arms force code is soon to be included. Hopefully, I don't gut the AI any more-so then I already have.

--

@grahamwookie

What do you think?

I kinda like my enhanced dynamic reinforce code. Wait, I didn't get the chance to upload that code. Next time! Until then, be sure to address me as "Mr. UberBugz". Of course, I'd prefer "Sir. UberBugz". Got shield?

sweeten2213

@ Uber -

Haven't checked out your code yet (busy with our mod) but your right the facing has changed. From my experiences and with a similar code (if not exact), it will turn - just not how I would like it to and not like it used to.

As far as call ins, I seem to have it regulated as I would any other unit. However, that being said, EVERY unit is controlled in rules_unit_purchase. I like my AI on a short leash. With that also comes combined arms, as well. That's also with the hard caps on the units within the call ins, as well.

Of course I've tinkered with just about every line and written hundreds more, so who knows.

I will look at your code as soon as I get a chance.

grahamwookie

Hi all, I'm not technically minded so feedback on what does what isn't something i can do for you Mr. Uberbugz. What I can do is tell you a tale of the battle I fought lastnight, not against my first born child, but the Americans who didn't like me being on the same map (the germans).

I played on the Paradrop map (the single player campaign map) against a normal AI opponent and they were hell bent on pushing my defenses with infantry. The AI did choose the infantry (rangers) doctine which they only used (kind of spammed) later in the game.

They used MG nests effectively facing my advance (direction). Blitzkrieg got rid of them!

They seemed to have a combined arms tactics going on. Mortors were used effectively and I remember them used well in the vanilla days.

The AI did attack not on one front but tried my flanks and when i put up wire defenses to stop infantry flanking they still tested the wire for gaps. It look grand seeing the infantry with MG and mortor support pushing my flanks but it was all not enough HA HA HA HAHAHA

My tank/infantry rush at there base didn't work out to plan, there call in units flanked me. They used a sniper well, retreating each time and then housing him in the HQ near the end, as he took out my infantry surrounding there HQ.

I'll play some more :-) and let you know.

Is there any updates to your mod we that I can test further?

Thanking you kindly