sparky

well basically im going to get a necron mod sorted... I make the models... that will take awhile and ill make the building

1) base ideas: Well im thinking of using monolith shape buildings for anything that brings in units
Research for the lord the standard building
Have a C'tan Building hat summons them (you can only have 1 c'tan running about)

2) there special rules: well the necron rules for getting back up should be tricky and i would have to have a look at the tech trees etc etc...
The necron lord rules would be based around the whole eldar rules... just a change a textures and maybe the look

There addons:
War scythe from the Staff of light

Veil of Darkness
Gaze of flash
Destroyer body
Resurrection Orb (maybe)
Phylactery? (maybe)

The gauss weapons will be stronger than the standard weapon... in the tt game a gauss weapon can Destroy a tank with ease so there going to be slightly stronger than a bolter in the game

The models in game:
Necron Lord
Necron Warriors
Necron Immortals
Necron flayed ones
Necron Destroyers/heavy destroyers

Scarabs
Pariahs

The NightBringer
The Deceiver

Monolith

the Monolith will be a fun vehicle to have... It will have all weapons on the side plus the particle whip and you should be able to bring troops threw it

4) Weapons: The weapons will be stronger to pierce amour not much otherwise it would be just gay (this can change what do you think?)

the effect of the weapon will either be a green Beam (like the lascannon) or a green ball (plasma weapon)

5) the model rules for flayed ones: Basically No fire arms... can deep strike blah blah blah

I will have to wait till the games comes out (like everyone else is saying) but ill get the sound files sorted... The models made and the textures sorted

any more ideas? :smash:

DarthVaygr

Oh wow....the Necrons! That sounds really good! Well, perhaps make the monolith have uber ass weapons, but you can only have 1 or two on the field. If this is possible, perhaps they gain more from cover than other races, because they need guerilla tactics? Hmm......2 uber units. Only 1 on the field. What will they do? Scythe of doom? Hehe. I'm a 40k newbie, so forgive me. Perhaps the monolith has no penetration, and make it another anti-infantry weapon. Shouldn't destroyers and heavy destroyers be machines/vehicles?

sparky

well no as they are necrons jsut like a warrior... Thats a good point.. Only 1 monolith and use the destroyers as vehicals which would be a good idea... monolith will destroy alot... so 1 monolith

Glaurung

I'm working on an Immortal mod and when I'm finished i'll probably post a pic of it.
I'm a newbie to modding but really good at programming and picking things up. And i've used autocad and some other graphics design things.

Syrhk

C'Tan should definitely be the uber units of the Necrons, I would think that the armor piercing on them would be godlike, as well as damage... As for monolith, I think that they too would be uber units, and the destroyers/heavy destroyers would be vehicles as well... as for what the animations for the weapon fire would look like, it would be like a lascannon, however Gauss weapons are a continous stream, so I am not sure if you could do that or not...

As for the lord... You should also have him able to get a destroyer body, that would be interesting...

The hardest thing to do would be to implement the we'll be back rule, or rather converting that over to the game. I am not sure whether you could have that allowed, the dead coming back to life, or instead you'd have to rather make them have a large regeneration rate that would reflect their self healing abilities.

Just my two cents, I look forward to the mod if you get around to making it.

sparky

well currently... i have to udnerstand the engine... and i have to make the models... i have to wait til someone gets online Lol...

what i could do for the guass weapon is use the plasma ball effect... it doesnt have to be a beam... and it would sort things out... Yeah i was thinking a high rate repair not to much but it is easy done...

the coding and such is going to be easy but the making of the models... well its going to be tricky

Richtofen

IMO C'tan are too big to put into the game. Not to mention they would have to be constantly flowing as they are virtually made out of liquid. They would be rediculously more powerful than an avatar. Monolith should be necron relic unit.

sparky

well the avtar is stronger shouldnt be that strong for a start... they will be stronger... but they are the leaders of the necrons and they should be there... the monolith is also a necron unit.. in 40k they have the c'tan and the monolith.. jsut get over it... and destroy it

Rhyos

I think adding necrons would be a great idea. The first army I ever set my Highwind Chapter against was the Necrons, and I managed to win!

Richtofen

I can see what you are saying, but, NO ONE will be able to do the justice that the C'tan deserve in the game. In the TT they effortlessly go round killing avatars for breakfast. C'tan are the most powerful creatures in the galaxy. Think of the Nightbringer in the game like this, you would have a hugely tall unit with at least 10 000HP running around with a lascannon and doing at least 4000 damage per hit in addition to being able to move through terrain and anyone who gets near him gets blown away. He would literally be harder than nails. Nothing personal, but as I said, NO ONE will be able to do justice to the Nightbringer or any other C'tan and they would be completely imbalanced, no matter how much they cost, not to mention that you will be able to get 2. If the land raider is a relic unit and the monolith is considered equal, then why can't it be the relic unit?

The C'tan would be nice because necrons already lack many units but would be like adding the emperor or chaos gods into the game. Remember, DoW is based on the universe, not the TT game and if the C'tan currently alive are enough to defeat all the others, the old ones, the eldar and their living warp weapons (khaine/chaos gods), subjugate the necrontyr and even with the necrodermis, they would be extremely powerful. Not to mention the fact that they are named characters.

As for we'll be back, make it exactly like the Phoenix egg from warcraft, when a necron dies, his body will stay there and have a certain amount of HP. If you kill it, hes gone but if you leave him for say, 5 seconds, the necron gets back up.

Hope you take this as constructive criticism, this is just my opinion. Anyway, good luck to you.

DarthVaygr

OMFG C'Tan would so own. Make it so that the Necron have two uber units, the Nightbringer and the Deceiver *warhammer newbie here; remember; although I have studied the Necrons for all the official stuff on the net* And you can only have one on the field at a time. Besides, 10, 000 HP is like 1 and 1/2 Avatars I'm sure continous beams are doable, or better yet, a continuous pulse! Like have it shoot many weak las-cannon beams side by side so it seems continuous and powerful. This p@wnz in HW2, Relic's last game. I'm sure it would look really cool......

Nocturne

Umm, the thing is Necrons (as i see them from a RTS stand point) would be damn hard to balance. Every unit if left can get back up (i like the FT pheonix egg by the way) and they should traditionally be tough. They don't have a lot of vechicles (one if i'm right, 2 if u make those destoryers vehicles). Now here's the thing, units need to have a weakness, to make things counterable. Before any mod takes shape, the person behind it should be thinking how the existing races could counter what your making, because if they can't, then the mod isn't going to work. I love the necrons they're very unique, but it needs some thought.

Sprengmeister

Why arent we all doing a big mod with all the races? ^^
so weve got 2039 mods, for every race 1, but other we get 1 with every race ^^

ZzGashi

Yeah Necrons would be so hard to balance they got all there regeneration, very long range, and not to metion the fact that they can annoy the heck out of anyone who plays against them.

Syrhk

What you'd have to do is make them have less sqauds and vehicle caps... all their units deep strike in essentialy as well, so that would be a bit difficult to handle. And to balance the C'tan will be a horror, but start by taking away their ranged attacks, and making them vulnerable to heavy weapon fire, as they are anyway. They have armor of course, and their armor piercing would be uber high... I would make them cost up the wazoo and have them use 5-10 squad slots or something

DarthVaygr

Don't weaken the unit. Weaken the race. As stated above very well. Make the unit cap need high, make them NOT able to increase unit cap. Perhaps when they die they spawn very weak variants of themselves? Like the same thing with 1/8 its predecessor in every aspect. Sure that might work.

Syrhk

But Necrons don't come back like that... regular warriors should come back full health, but things like the lord would come back with 1/3 of the health he had... of course, this is if it is possible to code them to be able to get back up. If not, then regeneration or some such ability should be implemented, maybe like the beserk fury of the chaos warriors, only instead of buffing them it makes them regenerate really fast for a period of time.

Rollnon20s

How about this idea what about each necron begins with 10 percent chance of getting back up but health is half and you can upgrade the amount of chance of we be back at the hq/level 1 hq 10 percent/level 2 20 percent/level 3 30 percent

Syrhk

That might work, it would make them much more powerful later in the game though, so they would be a non rushing race for sure... but there is still the question as to whether you can code the "we'll be back" rule.

And since it is pretty obvious Necrons are not a rushing army, what would they have for turrets? I know a gauss turret, but would it have an Anti Vehicle upgrade? As is, Guass weapons are very effective at taking out tanks, so I would suggest no upgrades for turrets...

Oblivion

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalo...NECRONS_26.html

Something similar to this might work for a turret

Shadowrath

I have an idea on how to keep the necrons baenced. Keep with the high health recovery rate and have the squads build with 10 guys off the bat but allow no renforcements to the squads.

Syrhk

maybe, or rather instead of having a sqaud limit, having a limited number of sqauds you can summon. So you start with 20 sqaud points of necron warriors and can't get any more.

Rollnon20s

so when you use them all up you can't build units any more

Double Post

Anyone started on the mod yet

Double Post

so like orks

Richtofen

Reasons why C'tan should be included:
-Big, mean star munching energy based lifeforms
-If done right, would look absolutly BRILLIANT
Reasons why C'tan should not be included:
-Mofo of a balance issue, would either be rediculously overpowered or cost too much no one would get one.
-They are NAMED SPECIAL characters.
-If not done right, would suck balls.
-Would give necrons 3 heroes and 3 relic units (monolith would HAVE to be one).

We'll be back:
If a necron dies, it becomes dead. It is replaced with another unit which is essentially the dead necron (although it cant do anything and has half the health of a living one, eg say a necron warrior has 300/300 HP the dead 'marker' will have 150/150). There will be a time limit, if the time expires, the necron 'marker' will dissapear and the dead necron will come back to life in it's squad at full health (while waiting to come back, it still counts towards the squad size). If the marker is destroyed before the timer goes out, your necron is dead, and so teleports out.

What I can't think of how to work is the phase out... But personally, in an RTS there is nothing worse than everything of yours dying cause the enemy managed to harass with a sniper and kill one of your units. IMO 25% phase out shouldn't be in DoW.

Triceron

You gotta admit though, having a nightbringer in as a relic unit would look incredible, like the Avatar and Blood Thirster.

Richtofen

I've said that.

NightBringer

ok, people have been questioning how you counter the necrons with the existing races... what do the necrons and eldar have in common?
for the most part they are shooty races, with a few CC specialists, but for the most part, they prefer to gun you down instead of hack you to bits. so logically, the best way to counter them would be to engage them in CC, making it so they take tremendouly more damage form melee attacks than from ranged. (races like orks and chaos would be best at this)

the "we will be back" rule would work with the pheonix egg method, where they have a death move (fall over) but instead of disappearing like other units, they stay there and their health bar goes back up slowely (say 10-20 seconds). unless they are destroyed while fallen over, they basically get back up. this could count towards reenforcement, where unless say 3-4 dont get back up, u cant order in anymore for the squad.

their gause weapons should fire a beam, not pulses, much like the ion cannons of HW2.

i dont think it would be very wise to have a C'Tan in the game, you should just make them similar to the sm in that they are rock hard anyway, and have a monolith as their uberunit (which would also be hard as nails to compensate for only having 1 or 2 at most... which is differnt to the sm who have loads of vehicles ot choose from)

their units should be more expencive than the other races, but have the same build tie as say the space marines. their basic weapons should be good against most unit types (except vehicles), and their heavier weapons (gause cannons, particle whip etc) should be good against vehicles.


as for their builder unit... you could do something similar to chaos and kind of invent a new unit (relic has rights to do it anyway) such as a smaller tomb spyder-like thing, or even just have loads and lods of scarabs. then like the gretchin, scarabs could aso make great meat shield units (also include tombspyders that can create scarabs themselves, but those scarabs automatically attach to the spyder, so it has more protection)

that jsut some of my ideas, critisism welcome

Glaurung

I like the pheonix egg idea but in the TT there is only a 50% chance of them getting back up, so that could balance the necrons a little more. And i cant get my stupid immortals face to look right in gmax.

Syrhk

NightBringer, you bring up good points but one thing irked me. You said that the regular weapons wouldn't be good against vehicles, but that's one thing that makes Necrons... Necrons. You should make their base weapons effective against vehicles, but I would say to leave the flayed ones out of the mod to give them less CC capabilities to even it out. As for their units being more expensive, maybe, it depends on how the "we'll be back" rule is settled and such.

And That looks good for a turret Oblivion... I looked through the rules for them and I can see that working, the base turret being a Gauss Flux Arc Projector (D6 hits on every unit within 12") Or it can be upgraded to use the Particle Accelerator (12-120" Str 9 Ap 3 Ord.Blast AA Mount, Titan Killer) I think that with these put in, Necrons should most definetly be a more defensive army, much like eldar can be with their turrets.

Scudd

Yes, so...just like in tabletop, you make each squad cost ALOT, and take up many squad slots. Normal units take around 2 I think, make it like....3 for warriors or even 4. Keep squad numbers to at max around 10(though in TT it's 20) and make reinforcement take a good long time.

DarthVaygr

Or you could use this: http://hem.passagen.se/tunih/W40KSt...cronWelcome.htm as a platform.

This could be their walker unit: http://hem.passagen.se/tunih/W40KSt...cronWelcome.htm

http://hem.passagen.se/tunih/W40KSt...cronWelcome.htm Fast attack/skimmer of sorts.

Nocturne

Some of those looks quite necron-y, although i like how they 'liberated' models from star wars (tanks and Destoryer droid) and Terminator (the HK).
Is anyone working on any models right now? I'd be happy to help with any of the code side.

DarthVaygr

Well, modding is not allowed until the game release. That means viewing the code, or editing it. However, we could work on models, and maybe textures *convert to the game format later* but coding will have to wait.

Richtofen

That's in the table top. Remember, in the TT you can't shoot necrons while they're down, so it will all balance out

And DoW is universe based, not TT based.

Nocturne

Yep i think that's a good point, in the end you get the same effect, but it'll make the game work better. I know there's no way to 'code' right now, but models can be made, the army list drawn up, possible ideas made costs per unit etc decided.

Richtofen

Its easy work and all but what would be cool for necrons is no voices at all (unless its scarabs, they can make some beeping sounds). It would give the right atmosphere of an impersonal army of doom death destruction and mystery.

DarthVaygr

Or, for the sake of gameplay, make the phrases very short, and include all necessary phrases. Maybe it should be an option?

Imperial marine

maybe you could add necron pylons on the map as a way to get necron reinforcements late in game

DarthVaygr

Hmmm........shall we start? Ok, we need a unit list, and unit role. Strategically create a mod before the game comes out hehe.

sparky

right... thank you for everyone that has been commenting on this whole necron mod idea. Now before i continue.. want to make something clear... C'tan are going to be in this mod, so are flayed ones, and monoliths... please this can be sorted for balance... as you say... this game is different to the tt so we can bend afew rules

now im going to go threw each of the units to give you a basic idea of the weapon damage, cost etc etc (please comment on this so we have a better idea)

Necron Warriors:
Damage: well the same as a space marine in CC
Guass flyers: Well there going to be the same as a bolter
health: Well atm i dont know if i can get a "we'll be back" thing but if we cant then higher regeneration rate

Necron Lord:
Damage: Same as a Force commander in CC
Staff of light: Bolter strength
Health: Same as a force commander with higher regeneration rate

Necron Wraiths:
Damage: Slighty Stronger than a space marine
Health: same as a necron warrior

Immortal:
Damage: Same as a necron warrior
Guass blasters: stronger and faster than guass flyers
Health: same as a necron warrior

Pariah:
Damage: Stronger than the average space marine
Guass blasters: Same as above
Health: No regeneration rate same as a space marine

Flayed ones:
Damage: Same as a space marine in cc
health: same as a necron

C'tan Nightbringer:
Damage: A TAD BIT MORE THAN THE AVATAR!!!
Weapon: missile launcher lighting bolt
health: About the same as a avatar just with a slower regeneration rate

C'tan deceiver
Damage: Weaker than a blood thirster
health: Less than a blood thirster

Vehicals

Destoryers:
Damage: same as a necron warrior
Guass cannon: Stronger than a heavy bolter
health: same as a necron

Heavy Destoryers:
Damage: same as a necron warrior
heavy Guass cannon: same as a lascannon
health: same as a necron

Monolith:
Weapons: Guass flyer strength plus the ordinance weapon
Armour: about the same as a land raider
Transport: can transport units

Base

HQ:
3 upgrades
Builds: Tombspiders
Research: Caps, and infiltration

Machinery:
builds: Necron Lord, Warriors
Advance build (needs research) Pariahs, Flayed ones, immortals

Senors (listening post):
no weapons to start with
2 upgrades
1st) Guass basters
2st) Guass Cannon

Generators:
2 upgrades you know what they will upgrade too

Research:
allows flayed ones to deep strike
1) Stronger guass flyers
2) Even Stronger guass flyers
1) Allows necrons to regenerate
2) Allows necrons to regenerate faster
Warscyth
Gase of flame
Regeneration for the Necron Lord

Advance machinery:
Necron Destoryers
Necron heavy Destroyers
Monolith (needs Advance research and C'tan hosting)
Destory body

Advance Generators

Guass Turrets:
Heavy bolters

Mines:
blah

Advance research and C'tan hosting:
Regeneration for the Necron Lord at a faster rate
Allows the necron lord to transport (veil of Darkness)
Builds: C'tan gods (only 1)


What do you think? :smash: :smash:

Shadwhand

Just read up on the mod and it sounds good, just a few possible suggestions on balance (haha, and noone's even started yet...)

i guess this applies to all guass weapons, since they literally flay the atoms off anything they hit, why not give them a morale modifier similar to a flamer, only have them do slightly less damage than a bolter. You would definitely have to make the necrons more expensive in the long run than any other race. and it seems from the devs who've been posting, that making a we'll be back script will be possible in the final game.

Nightbringer : in the TT, he's 360 points, has an ordinance attack, has an insane energy blast, and hurls units in close combat around him. In terms of Nightbringer in the game itself, i'd say give him the defiler weapon and an attack similar to the eldar farseer. But make him so damn expensive you can only really get him at the very end of 3rd tier. He shouldn't be a game breaker, he should be used to sweap through the enemy.

Deceiver: Allow the creation of a mirror army? Kinda like the abilities in alot of RTS where you can create fake units (like Rise of Nations general's ability) And something that would modify the accuracy % for enemy weapons. In terms of attack, he doesnt seem to have anything other than close combat attacks. but he does seem to be a very strong morale modifier. Again, let his abilities effect morale more than anything. His deceive power forces units to take morale tests, in the game, it would significantly hurt morale more than anything.

Immortals personally, i would make more like terminators but otherwise I agree.

Anyway, in general, I agree with all of your assertions about the necron. I guess the one thing i would add is the morale modifier to all of the units, making them more effective, but as a result, more expensive as well. If you read through the necron codex, all they talk about is the irrational fear that overtakes their opponents. That would definitely make the necron a tough army to beat, but with the morale modifier, you could potentially make them alittle weaker in terms of health, but with a much faster regeneration rate (basically, you have to pound these guys to the ground to take them out, and its probably safer keeping your distance from most of them) Just my thoughts.

DarthVaygr

I think that their weapons should be longer range than others. Perhaps, make their gauss flayers and pretty much all their weapons have atleast the range of missile launchers. Their damage is fine, but range should be above average. Something to play them as supposed to the adaptable SM. Hehe. And when you say damage, do you mean close range? Do you plan to give the C'Tan any special abilites? And as for these:
Warscyth
Gase of flame
Regeneration for the Necron Lord

What do they do? Atleast a little summary from TT.

Syrhk

I disagree with the staff of light stats on your idea sparky, that thing should be much more powerful than a bolter, as should Wraiths. Wraiths should be the main cc really, and flayed ones are more of fodder than anything. As for the Nightbringer... You're kidding me right? No way is the Nightbringer on terms with the Avatar, he could eat those for breakfast. I was thinking more of squiggy proportions, but he uses a shitload of sqaud points instead...

And Shadowhand's idea about gauss flayers doing less damage and having the moral effector sounds really good, but I would also make them have a higher armor piercing (i.e. more effective against vehicles) as well, since gauss are better than bolters in that way.

And DarthVaygr, here are the summaries...

Warscythe- Pariah weapons, made from the same metal Monoliths and the C'tan Necrodermis is, is ignores all armor saves (even invulnerables) and gets 2d6 penetration against vehics. The Pariah version has a gauss blaster built into it but I don't think that the Lord upgrade does. This basically makes the lord a close combat powerhouse though, on par with a Warboss I would think, but no ranged abilities.

Gaze of Flame: Any models charging in combat do not get their +1 attack they'd normally get and also have -1 morale. so in DoW This would basically be like a morale attack and slow their rate of attack down for a period or something.

Regeneration for the Necron Lord: This is just what it says, he regens at a faster rate, but it could also be Phylactery, which gives a chance that the lord can get back up (via the We'll be back rule) with 1, 2, or 3 wounds depending on the roll you get. on a four, he gets up with one, five he gets up with two and six he gets up with three, that may be a thing to research, so the Lord starts with more health after getting up or something.

PureChaos

Well im wondering how would thye work. Personaly id like to see them work diffrently then chaos or SM or eldar. I like the way they did the orcs. definatly something diffrent.

No correct me if im wrong but to become a necron they either use your corpse or you accept it and they use your body at your own will. Now i was thinking in that that what if there squads to become reinforced had to find corpses. like other people said necrons are strong so this is a way to stop them right in there. Basicly you have to kill to get better. Thuse this race is not for turtels. Also to get more units this way you will need atleast 2 units to make a small ritual to make him a necron.

Just something cool i would like to see.mind you it could work normal like SM's but this part above would make scarab swarms.

also i was thinking of a animation for them to revive. So i came up with this. Basicly when you necrosn ge ta chance to revive a green smog goes around the corpses. If it fails nothing happens. If it works a unit comes and tp's right near them. He raises his hands causing the corpse to float then a green explosion happens(so you cant see anything were it is) then the necron come back to life and picks his gun up.

Syrhk

No... that is not how Necrons came to be. All the necrons have already been created, and were formally a race known as the Necrontyr. Their numbers never increase or decrease, because instead of dying they phase out and return for repairs. And that is not how they are resureccted, their bodies have self healing mechanisms, which I would imagine to be robotic arms that pop out of the necrons body and start to piece it back together, that would be a cool animation.

Shadwhand

Necron's aren't actually created like that, at least in the latest iteration of the fluff. Necrons are basically the remains of the Necrontyr, who originally found the c'tan.

I think you have an interesting perspective on the way necron's should be played. I'm thinking that the necron, since they'r emore of a passive race in the fluff; what if at a certain point, you can keep building units, but you can't release them until the enemy has taken the first critical point. When that happens, you'll be allowed to TP your necron to that critical point to exact vengeance against the force that dares disturb your sleep.

Remember: you don't need to put every single unit from the TT into the game... so you wouldn't need heavy destroyers AND destroyers, nor would you need immortals AND pariahs.

Syrhk

That would be interesting, but I would say you'd have to build them first or something. Like, you can build a base and defensive structures (which could be cloaked then rise from the ground or something) but no units can be actually deployed (as in, you build them while you build their base but they wait in the tombs) Then once you are actually attacked, they stir to life or something. I could see that happening for all but the Monolith and the C'tan, seeing as the Monolith is basically their main attack vehicle and transports them to the place they want to attack, and the C'tan aren't really passive, they still want to feed and everything.

Rollnon20s

How about you need a c'tan to reinforce

Shakrith

Err... the C'Tan are mortal (immortal?) enemies and they would never ally on a single field of battle. Necrons could heal themselves for We'll be Back, and the Necron Lord could have a simple collection of abilities like a stun Solar Pulse, an enhanced healing aura, and Veil of Darkness to teleport allies.