Vijil

http://relicuniverse.com/news/2004/08/23/000110.php

We now have a far better idea of what HW2 might have been, if not for... well many things. Check it out.

oops about the link folks...

ceejayoz

Wow... there was an actually interesting plot!

Makaan as Progenitor AI influencing the Vaygr... the reason the Vaygr went after the Hiigarans... who Sajuuk is, why his ship is there, etc...

God, I wish that'd all been in there...

Bri_Dog

Why are those links bringing me to this thread?

reki

Im not sure what Vigil is on, but his post just links back to this thread for some reason. I guess what he meant to post was this:



Source: www.relicuniverse.com

Tyranny, is there some reason why your previous post links to a new reply field for this thread?

Mr Tyranny

Well no not really.. I thought this was a joke thread of some kind cause the link just comes back here and was just waiting for it to be locked.. Didn't know it was real.. you may delete all my posts in it if you want..

[edit] already deleted..

Wow.. thats some cool info!!

Link to the info for when the Relic Universe front page news changes..
http://relicuniverse.com/news/homeworld_2/

Frem

nice, cant wait to read it all

Chaos_Smurf

couldnt they do an exp with alll that in fo in it... just a thought

Bri_Dog

I'm sure they have the capabilities to do so. But will they ever get the funding and permission? Probably not.

Chaos_Smurf

probably not is right
HO HUM

Noir

I'm only up to the first seven pages but I can immediately notice a change of atmosphere from the end-HW2.It's much darker,more dogmatic in some way,more...Warhammer >=) .

Edit:Whoops,it was the HW empire one,guess they're different.Oh well,the "Background" file is REALLY Warhammer...

Hyperian

i havent played hw2 yet but it seems like it could've been way more than what people said hw2 is.
i'll play hw2 when i have time lol

Noir

And another thing...

Codex:Hiigara?

Sav-T

Who ever wrote this is on medication......alot of whats written is way off the games story line or illogical just by the circumstances of the game.
Has anyone really read this? pretty much everything said is either wrong or said incorrectly, its like changing the story after everyone knows it from playing the game!
All 3 of those files contradict one another!!!!!! jesus its ridiculous..... on top of this they were made in 99..... the game came out then right?

Frem

they dont contradict eachother really, its just that one is more complete than the other

Progenitor

omg finally a conclusion that the dustwars version of HW2 is far more intersting than the released version...

it contradicts a little, yes, but it also explains more about the progenitor and talks about sajuuk as a living thing, not a SHIP!!!

Frem

but still, its not all what they have. Relic should release all of it so we could fill the plot holes that were left by hw2.

Elukka

T-Mat... Other interesting stuff... Now I can really say that Dust Wars storyline would have been alot better.

ArgCmdr

Ehm, didnt we already know Dustwars era had a more complete storyline anyway?

In the end of HW2, i was under the impression that the series were actually saying goodbye. The ending with the planet killers was mysterious, yes, but the fact that it said "The S´Jet era had begun" or something along those lines makes you think of a period of well-deserved and long lasting prosperity, with no plot or events for a secuel. I dont know if anybody else hd the same feeling at its time, like if, even if there were unanswered things, they werent going to be answered.

Sav-T

It ruins the whole concept of Homeworld......how the Progenitors go around the universe giving hyperspace tech to every race.....or most races......fair enough it can make sense how they are the most advanced in all the universe, going from galaxy to galaxy giving technology to all races, so they prosper.... but this bullcrap about how Sajuuk was a traitor or something and was hunted down.... it ruins the whole thing.........these info are someones prediction or belief.....it doesnt follow the story enough to be the actualy events.
The original belief of them (Progenitors) comming to this galaxy, creating the three hyperspace cores.......Sajuuk being the leader and having the strongest ship every created named after him *perhaps there flag ship* and he knew that the Progenitors era was comming to an end......perhaps they reached the final level of evolution or mental/physical perfection so they ended their race knowing they died perfect beings.
Progenitors going around from galaxy to galaxy is the stupidest concept thought of, they forged more than the 3 far jumper cores? made huge megaliths in each galaxy aswell as creating the hyperspace networks. This "story" is fanfare, what someone wants to believe, 1999 was published too, Relic didnt even know the story at that time! what would this person know? information about the game and the ending are brought in and confirmed from bits of information they release, not this concept. And they just so happen to be hunted down by a superior race or die in the homeworld galaxy....out of all the galaxys they just had to die there? hey why not say theres a Sajuuk in every galaxy? or 3 far jumper cores for each one? anyone can write what they WANT to happen and publicise it. But if you play the 3 games, go through the entire game watching the cut scenes, read all the history and technical brieflys etc they give u with the games, u get the general IDEA and thats enough. Those mini storys are contradicting pretty much everything read it carefully and u will pick it up.

Progenitor

sajuuk ain't the most powerful ship around...and the idea of the progenitors being the most advanced race in the galaxy handing out hypertech ain't so absurd...

note that the dustwars version didn't have just 3 cores, they had wild jumper cores and the hiigaran DID back engineer the core from the mship.

and the addition of the t-mat, nathorians, and some other race really adds depth to the homeworld series, although if you read the story, it seems that it's talking about the hiigarans in detail and their commanding hierachy...what of the CGI cutscenes of hiigarans communicating and the whole emperor ceremony thing...

but it really deviates from the whole HW concept and MAY be a good thing...a pity sierra axed it...

Sav-T

No it isnt a pity, they axed it for the reason that it ruins the homeworld story.......the saga ends with the 2nd game.......back storys are only meant to keep gammers interested in the game, they do it all the time for star wars games and for other RTS games.
All races developing from the Progenitors must be the stupidest concept, if the Kushan noticed they werent indigenous to Kharak wouldnt they notice they have the same genetic make up as every other freaking race, common sense.
Also S'jet never had children, she was single when she became fleet command and on her return to Hiigara, she became silent and withdrawn.....yeh she goes out in the street one night, meets a guy falls in love etc....funny she is 200 years old, has no hair and is the most important being in the galaxy to the Hiigarans, save Sajuuk himself, any hiigaran male have the guts to ask out the messaih of their race? lol thats a joke in itself.
And in the concept this Adam person indicated he went into cryo sleep.... well when the Hiigarans got Sajuuk ship wouldnt they have found him? The Sajuuk being there god was a common belief...perhaps the Progenitors came to the homeworld galaxy for protecting it, all races looked up to them as their protector, all mighty god, "whos hand shapes what is"....and when their time came....they saw the Bentusi being the most advanced race.....gave them the FIRST hyperspace core....the other 2 being buried in various other places in the galaxy. Plus the Hiigarans after Cataclysm found peace in their civilization, they made a council where everyone is equal, not an emperor, Hiigara didnt become an empire again, just a powerful civilization/world and thats how it ends in HW 2.
Progenitors being more than one race is stupid.... Progenitors is the name of the ONE race that they found all the derlicts on....which Sajuuk was one of, all the other derelicts and ships etc....could be from other races....what the hell indicates they are Progenitors too. This person who wrote these fan fares probably hasnt played any of the games. And if u DID read those files carefully, he does say they were ideas/prototypes, probably suggestings they some of the story writters thought of and agreed was to crap to produce. Last thing, it makes out that the Bentusi puposely went out of their way to kill the Hiigarans, when they didnt, they were just policing the galaxy.

Starblade

Sav-T, you realize this is what the story was going to be, right? That it isn't fake, right?

And Progenitor means 'First ones'. It doesn't meant that's the real name of that race.

And how would the Kushan notice the other races genes, the ones they haven't met yet?

Personally, I like this better than the current HW2.

Frem

why do i have to say this so many times today? shut up! it doesnt ruin HW storyline, if you like the empty world with lame story that is told to 9 year olds then please go read some fairy tales. the dust wars story is far more complex and promising than that of Hw2. hw2 is just LAME and overdone by so many books/movies/games.

in that story Sjet wasnt 200 years old. in that story she had hair.

you are mixing HW2 and dust wars together while they are two completley separated stories.

Starblade

lol, I just read the combat chatter, some of it is pretty funny.

Pherdnut

For people, criticizing, you need to keep in mind that this was never intended for public consumption and is most likely an unproofed draft of what they might have done. It doesn't fill in plot holes. Nor does it contradict anything. It just gives you an idea of how they developed the storyline. Clearly they wanted a more character driven game, but in the end they just didn't have the resources or the time. The original game concept, though interesting in theory, proved to be unworkable and the HW2 we have now is the result of some very frantic redevelopment. All things considered, I'd say it turned out quite good given the time they had. I think they literally dropped their entire original game and only had a few months to make the new one with the engine and development tools they already had in place.

ÜberJumper

Pretty well exactly what Pherdnut said.

You can see how the original rumour of 5 races got started, because there's at least 5 in a couple of those treatments.

I can also see how they edited down the massive storyline to one that was shorter and less confusing. You can see how elements from the various treatments got into the final game.

I like how HW2 turned out... could it have been more interesting if they'd made it more character driven? Maybe. Would it have been more interesting to have more races involved? Quite possibly. There was lots they could have done with the story, and you can easily see how complex it would have gotten. Had they stuck with one vision, and one technology base for the game engine from the start, and hadn't had to restart development essentially from scratch (sure they kept some of the art assets...), they might have managed to get a more complex story delivered.

Thanks to the guys at RU who had the time to follow up on this with Relic. GG!

Tefeari

Sav-T, your being extremely rude, these documents are completely authetic.

Additionally, don't complain that they "contradict each other" because each document is from a different period in the storyline's development.

Keep in mind that the "Letter from Rob" pdf also acts as a contents and tells you what each document is.

I dont think Karen had children in any of the storylines, infact she is long dead.

Now, I dont know what your problem is, but stop flaming and making accusations that could only be said with a blatent misreading and misunderstanding.

ilia1986

Well, I guess this is the final stone in HW Universe's sacred grave.

:rip:

Arioch

Cool info. The fanfic guys are gonna go nuts.

Mac_Bug

Sav-T wins idiot award of the day

the_artist

Yeah, because as I see it, releasing these design docs is an admission that a further Sequel isn't going to happen ... You see, to me, it seems that the Homeworld 2 we got was an attempt to cut their losses and get a game out, without messing up potential leads on a futher sequel that would honor the name of the original - perhaps their original design plans would then form the basis for a Homeworld 3. As far as I can tell, the majority of those design docs would work as a Homeworld 3 - note how they assume that Karan is dead / ascended and that large time scales since Homeworld 1 have passed (500 - 1000 years, vs the 100 years of Homeworld 2 retail).

Take the Homeworld Empire script for instance. It's set 1000 years after Homeworld 1, so if it formed the basis of a Homeworld 3 (and I have to admit - I liked the heavily character based spin on it) it would be 900 years after Homeworld 2 - The opening of the document could be easily rewritten to accomodate the Homeworld 2 that we got (largely because Karan Sjet actually becomes the messiah that the Homeworld Empire script talked about). But sadly, releasing the storyline means that we'll never see it, and probably never a Homeworld 3 either.

ÜberJumper

I don't see how this means we'll never see a HW3. Sure likely never from Relic/THQ as Sierra owns the License, but there's nothing preventing Sierra from working with the License again.

I'm still thinking that Sierra's done with the Franchise though :-(

NovaBurn

oh jesus this story line kicks so much ass. I believe that it rivals the original Homeworld storyline, its that good. Although it is hella long, the overal feel to it is very good.

ÜberJumper

Nova:

Which of the 3 storylines in there did you like? :-)

Rebel

After reading that my head really hurts. So, the T-Mat and the Bentusi are joined by the Knights, Sajuuk is some sort of magical "sex ship", either seeding the universe with cores or seeding planets with crew members, and A new race of space-bees lives near Hiigaran space. Can't wait to see the modders rip those apart ^.^

Vijil

sav T won the idiot award as soon as he made his text purple...

folks we arent getting any more info than this. I was engaged in a fair bit of email correspondence with Rob about these, and its all we're getting, because its pretty much everything anyway.

Arioch

I'd almost rather no Homeworld 3 than a Homeworld 3 without Relic. To paraphrase James Cameron, "T3? Without me!"

But who knows... the way publishers are going belly-up these days, there's always the possibility of the HW property someday showing up on the auction block.

I really do appreciate Rob and the guys releasing this info, and Vij's efforts in getting it. It's too bad that most people are just going to bitch about it.

The Preacher

This just made my day. I must say that I LOVE the "dustwars" script. It seems to keep the religious aspects of the HW universe a bit more mysterious and at the same time, it seems more "human." Mistakes are made because of good intentions, people misunderstand each other, and the races seem a bit more unique. It's too bad it didn't work out.

I have to give a HUGE thanks to the guys at HWU. This is one of the coolest things I've seen in a while. I'd also like to thank Relic for releasing this stuff for the rabid fanboys like me!

Tefeari

I'd also like to make it known that these scripts were not neccesarily released because it was viewed "that the series would be dead forever". Rather, the scripts were requested on the part of Vijil and I on several ideas, one of which were that modders might be able to restore much of what the game was meant to be.

DarthVaygr

Guess that means us modders have our work cut out for us Hero ships, anyone? The characterness of the *all 3* story lines seems to suggest that *his* ship and *he* must be saved and escape and what-not. Also, it would be something for people tapping into the power of cinematics to tackle!

ÜberJumper

Vijil:

Here's the link you mean for the first post... http://relicuniverse.com/news/2004/08/23/000110.php

JargonFilter

This is what i wanted homeworld2 to be. It is so much deeper (all 3 versions). Even the battle chatter is better, its really too bad it couldn't be completed.

here's to hoping there will be a homeworld3 from relic in the next 100 years.

ilia1986

There was always something charming about the HW series... Ever since HW1.. I think this was the combination of brilliant B&W concept art skethces, and the old skool design of the HW1 ships... And of course, the epicness...

I remember my shock when in HW1 Mission 4, 3 Ion Array Frigates hypered near my MS... I thought at that time that they were really werd looking ships... And the strange chatter coming from them when I got close was somewhat scary...

Damn, the good old days.. the nostalgia...

Pherdnut

Uber, if Sierra is done with the franchise, then they will sell it.

Captain Pierce

One of the documents, I forget which and Acrobat is completely hosed on my home machine :hmm: , ends just as they're introducing Karan's grandson, doesn't it?

Thanks to everyone involved with getting these released. I know it makes some of the Relic guys crazy when people say they think "Dust Wars" would have been better than the HW2 we got, but just from reading "Adam's Empire Script," I am hooked. I want that game.

Here's a thought I had today while reading it for about the third time today at work--does anybody else think that HW2 almost seems like an attempt to fill in some space between HW and the "Empire" script? After the events of HW2, you could almost do a modified version of the "Empire" thing as HW3, although it would loose that awesome hook of an opening title card, and thus some of the up-front punch would be gone...

Opium Samurai

Homeworld as a franchise is dead. Unless someone like Relic makes enough money off of a game to afford a "risk" by doing another HW (the sales on HW2 were not good iirc), I doubt anyone will do anything with it anymore.

The best hope may be that someone like Blizzard buys the rights and makes an un-rushed game. But Blizzard does their own IP's, and other mega-developers (BioWare) do other types of games.

reki

You never know really.. I mean, they made Doom 3 ten years after the previous one, and Return to Castle Wolfenstein twenty years after the original.

I think there will probably be a long wait before we ever see another Homeworld game (if ever), but remaking classic games with new technology seems to be a favourite thing for developers to do.

Tefeari

The idea of Blizzard making a homeworld game is pretty far-fetched, and this thread isn't discussing the continuability of the Homeworld 2 series so please stop posting on it.


ALSO this thread isn't for arguing the likelihood of further homeworld games so please STOP POSTING on it.

reki

Well, I think its kinda relevent Tefeari. Y'know.. the whole "this is what HW2 could have been.." inevitably leading to "maybe, just maybe... they could do it for HW3..." etc.

As long as it doesn't get too hypothetical, I don't think it hurts to mention it.