Mahu

The Dark Eldar as a race has very little support, and for good reason. Their Codex is old, and hard to use (lacking even Vehicle upgrade, which were "amended" later), there models are old and poorly sculpted, and they have the least support from the company that spawned them. So, why make the Mod. you ask? Well, why the hell not!

Who are the Dark Eldar? Click here.

This Mod. has two main thrusts, the first is to do a slight redesign of the units in look and feel. Nothing too drastic, basically we are going to review the Dark Eldar as if we are writting the next Dark Eldar Codex, as welll as the new models. The second is to add a new race to the game that will play rather differently than any other one.

For now the Mod. will be adding a Multiplayer race only, but will have the possibility to expand to some trully wicked Single player campaigns.

Units

Dark Eldar Lord

"Dark Eldar thrive on domination and power, and those who are vicious and ruthless enough will quickly rise to positions of authority. The Dark Eldar Lords lead their servants into battle in the search for slaves and souls, leaving worlds in ruin and a veritable mountain of dead heaped in their wake."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

There is no Dark Eldar Lord model I like. Therefore this commander choice will need a new design. I am figureing using the standard Dark Eldar armor, adding cloaks and capes, adding a wicked Halbert, and leaving his face exposed.

Haemonculus

"There is no pain unknown to the Haemonculi, no agony they cannot administer upon their victims. They treat the infliction of misery and death as the highest of arts, gleefully producing choruses of screams and taking delight in every nuance of discomfort and woe."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

Add a sleekness to the design to match the rest of the army and you are set.

Incubi

"A Retinue is made up of the Dark Eldar Lord's most trusted (and deadliest) servants. The Retinue will protect their Lord in battle, but, as the Dark Eldar are an evil and power-hungry race, a Lord required a Retinue to also protect him from his own followers nearly as much as they are required to shield him from the enemy!"
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

Appearance wise, all I want to change are there helmets. Just making them sleek. Otherwise they look gold.

Wyches

"Ruled over by their Succubi, Wyches spend their entire lives perfecting the skills of gladiatorial combat. Few survive their first duel, but those who live learn quickly. A Dark Eldar Lord with sufficient means can hire these highly-skilled warriors to accompany him into battle, promising great rewards for those whose fighting displays are most pleasing to watch."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

The Wyches are the most suffering of the model range. The gladiatorial look never sold with many people. But there are minutures that resemble what a Wyche should look like, the Dark Elf Wyche. I would use those models as a base and slightly modify the model to add the proper weapons (pistols and somewhat), I am partial to the blades on the Dark Eldar Wyche Special character...

Grotesques

"All Dark Eldar take pleasure in the infliction of pain. There are some who have become so obsessed by this need for torture that they have even turned upon their own bodies. Others are less voluntary about their twisted, manipulated flesh, having fallen victim to the attention of the haemonculi through some real or perceived misdeed, or by simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

I honestly don't know what to do with this unit. The look might be self explanatory, but too much depend on the redesign of other units.

Mandrakes

"Mandrakes are the most malevolent of the Dark eldar, preying on their own kind from the shadows of Commorragh. Who can say how a Dark Eldar Lord can entice these vile creatures to serve him in battle. What prizes can be offered to beasts who crave flesh and blood and little else?"
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

I want to go with a more Dark Elf Assasin look for them. With dark cloaks and hoods. However I want to retain the weapons they are armed with.

Warp Beast Pack

"Spawned from the bloody nightmares of mortals, Warp Beasts are death and pain embodied. They are voracious predators who will attack anything they can find. It is the task of the Beastmasters to catch these creatures, fight against them in the arena, or guide them into battle and unleash them upon the unwitting foe!"
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

The models are really bad, I mean really. For the beasts themselves, I think copying the Fantasy Cold Ones are the best bet. The beastmaster will be a reworked new style Wyche model with whips and such. Simple but cool looking.

Warrior Squad

"Dark Eldar Warriors attack rapidly, killing or crippling those who oppose them. They then drag off any survivors back to Commorragh to be tortured and killed at leisure."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

I want to keep the look of the warrior but only slightly modify it. Remove about 90% of the spikes (leaving the weapons alone though) and increasing the protrusions of all the sharp angles, nothing to drastic but really sleak and very evil. This armor will be the standard template for a lot of DE units, so this model will need to be made first.

Raider

"The Dark Eldar strike rapidly from their ships and warp portals, descending upon the enemy on their sleek Raiders. Utilising a grasp of anti-grav technology far more sophisticated than any other race, the Raiders allow the Dark Eldar to attack savagely into the heart of the enemy, giving them little chance to react or muster a defence."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

The raider will need a slight redesign. I am not really sure how to do this though and am very open to subjestions.

Hellions

"Mounted on multi-bladed skyboards, Hellions sweep down from the sky screaming chilling battle cries. They delight in surprise attacks, using their speed and specialised weapons to strike quick and hard, and then move out of range before the enemy can turn their guns on them."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

I am unsure of the skyboards, if they will work in close combat animations. If necessary I am not above the idea of jetpacking them to save us a lot of trouble. Basically a Dark Eldar Warrior with a Halbert so it will be easy.

Scourges

"On black pinions, Scourges drop down from the skies, their heavy weapons unleashing a hail of splinters and pulses of dark energy. They attack wherever they please, and strike where least expected, utilising their wings to quickly retreat or drive forward depending upon the enemy's strength."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

Devastators with wings. I would take the DE Warrior, change the helmet, add a few details, and the Jumppack.

Ravager

"Ravagers are variants of the Raider. Mounting a deadly battery of heavy weaponry, they have been the bane of tanks and other vehicles across the galaxy. Combining amazing speed with awesome weaponry, they can easily outmanoeuvre and blow apart the lumbering vehicles of other races."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

Being a modified Raider, I am unsure as to what to do. We might try a whole new design.

Talos

"Constructed by the insane Haemonculi, the Talos is a torture device that sweeps across the battlefield on anti-gravitic motors, latching on to its foes and incarcerating them within its armoured shell. The death spasms of those capured propel the Talos owards its enemies as its unique Sting wildly spews death in all directions and its many-bladed arms cut through armour and bone with lashing blows."
-Games Workshop U.S. Site

The design of this will basically stay the same. Maybe borrow more from the scorpion for its design and adapt the plateing to the new Raider.



So as you can see I stayed with the design process for now, I will let people smarter than I am discuss gameplay issues. The two things I need desperate help with are models and concept art.

Post here if you are interested in helping or if you just have comments. But please, no Dark Eldar sucks comments, that is what we are trying to fix.

Dalveldrin

I do think they would make a good race for DoW also. I heard that they had new models coming though, might be wise to wait and see. Someone mentioned some kind of "handout" maybe from a gamesday, that showed new Dark Eldar models.

Mahu

But I doubt that It shall be anything that will show the redesign necessary. When these models do become availible, we will incorperate them. But I wanted to get the ball rolling on concept art and such.

Dalveldrin

Fair enough hehe, I do really like the Dark Eldar. Although I also heard something about them being added to the Craftworld Eldar, as a sort of Dark Craftworlders.

Seriously though i'm not trying to make you second guess this, it is a good idea, I had thought about it before too, and there should be a thread somewhere in this forum about someone else who was gonna make it, but with the upcoming change to them as a race, I think people backed away for a little bit. For all we know, they will change everything about them.

Double Post

As for a mod on how the Dark Eldar are currently, yes I love it. Especially the Wych Cults.

Double Post

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=29359

Mahu

I have heard all those rumors too. But to get down to it, it will still be well over a year before we see anything. Also Gav Thorp (who wrote the Eldar codex) posted on another website that combining the whole is too much production for a single codex (especially all the new releases that would be required) and the R & D devolpment time would be alot as well. They are leaning currently to splitting the books to increase profit. But like I said it will still be a while before that happens, enough time to do the mod. You never know, it might influence the game designers.

Dalveldrin

Well in that case, I have no problem giving advice or anything of that nature, no modelling experience or anything technical. Had the Codex, used to have some of the models. But I love the overall feel of them, mobile, deadly, dressed in paper.

Dalveldrin

Was curious what plans you had for a builder unit. I've been thinking about it, and the best idea I can think of is slaves.

Richtofen

Dark Eldar would be cool, but the suffer from being a raider force. They DON't have bases. Necrons suffer from this quite a bit but DE are worse cause they come from Commoragh, raid, raid then go straight home.

ThrowN

Perhaps they could only have about three or four buildings - a warpportal as the main building with short construction time for nearly all units(they always need some access to a world), a defensive turret with a strong weapon but no so much hitpoints(they will surely gaurd their point of retreatment), a haemonculi experiment camp(these crazy guys won't wait till they are back in the dark city), and an wych cult arena(they will for sure find enough time for their entertainment)

to access the different units from the warpportal they might need an specific amount of killed enemy units...

With small bases and the need for kills to access the better units, they would be the most aggressive race in the early game...

For modeling: The warriors look really crap but I like the concept art of them, for example the codex cover. The wyches and all the wych related units are IMO ok, the haemonculi and the grotesques can't look ugly enough, and the barkes/wyvern are ok with some added details(corpses, skulls...)

Apollo101

What exactly was your point ? , your thread says Dark Eldar Mod, i dont see no mods just alot of talk about changeing how the models look not on how they should be used in a 40k game be it TT or pc based.

Not only that but if you want to redesign the models speak to the artists and sculpturs not people who may or maynot be able to help put modifications into the army to make them work more effiecently with the game.

I personally dont see a problem with useing the Dark Eldar the way they are already, i have thier latest codex and they seem reasonably balanced to me, oh, and one other thing..... im all for changeing thier looks but not slimlined body suits and helmets, i know they are a sub-race of the Eldar but please dont make them look like panzies. Dark Eldar are supposed to be evil not goody goody two shoes ok

Mahu

Dalveldrin - I think slaves would be the best too. I dunno, is it possible to have more than one model for the builders? It would be really cool if we could have Tau, Humans, etc. Showing that the Kabal has been around. If not we can stick with your basic human.

Richtofen - I understand your concerns, but bases are a neccessity in a game like DoW. However all attempts will be made to capture the style and feel of the Dark Eldar in their base design and implication, just as in the Necron Mod.

ThrowN - I like your ideas a lot! Captures the feel immensly. Maybe there is a way to even capture people from enemy units to increase the Dark Eldar's reasources.

Apollo101 - We are in no way going to make them "panzies" and the purpose of a thread called "Dark Eldar Mod" should be quite clear in a Modding forum. All the talk of the models is for the purpose of discussing how the race will appear in Dawn of War. I would be doing the race a disservice if I just coppied the substandard TT models that are availible, I want the force to more resemble to cool new artwork and feel of the fluff. That would be doing the Dark Eldar justice.

Richtofen

BUTBUTBUT!
Spikey != evil!
AND
BIG NECK-BREAKING HELMETS AREN'T COOL!

Problem is, bikes just don't work in DoW. That means reavers are out and I've always imagined Raiders to act like bikes, zooming everywhere. Dark Eldar are a bit like Daemonhunters, VERY cool for a single player campaign but wouldn't work really in multiplayer.

EDIT: Remember, Dark Eldar are lightning fast raiders who zip in, kill some babies, steal some kids and leave. There is a reason why they are ALWAYS the attacker. They have nothing to defend really. So having DE with buildgins would kinda be silly. Plus, they don't take ground, just slaves. I'm not trying to say "it sucks dont do it" but DE don't really suit DoW and the way it plays. Like Wood Elves, they are SO different from every other army out there and they don't suit WFB's game mechanics well.

Mahu

To make the transition to DoW some concessions need to be made. I figure that the Dark Eldar bases are mearly temporary structures designed to reinforce and coordinate any sustained raid (as such would be a mission in DoW). Beisides a lot of there units don't have the raider options. Warriors can be used as reinforcement troops with Warp Beasts, Grotesques, and Talos providing counter-assault support. If the enemy attacks these units will "hold the keep" as the faster units out flank them.

Dark Eldar are a raiding force but that doesn't mean they haven't planned for all other combat situations especially if they want something bad.

ThrowN

I think the models will cause lots of discussion anyway so try to adapt to Mahu's first post

The Dark Eldar Lord:
No ideas yet, but I think a mixture between Concept Art and Dark Elf characters might do it...

Haemonculus:
Give it a more Dark Eldar like stature, a scissor hand and a destructor and it will be fine

Incubi:
I like the models as they are, including the helmets. But the blade of the helbard could be more like one from the Dark Elf Black Guard

Wyches:
Again I like most of the models but again a more slim/fragile stature would fit in better...

Grotesques:
Well, ugly models but they are meant to be so. Like Zombies but with the slim Dark Eldar stature and some more cloths

Mandrakes:
I think the current models are ok the main problem is their poses. Hooded Mandrakes sounds alright but I dislike the idea of cloaks. They should be armed with one splinterpistol and some kind of Powerblade(only one!)...

Warp Beasts
Uh, the worst models of the current range... I think their models were inspired by big catlike creatures, so a strong mutated panther could do it...
The Beastmaster is ok, the problem might be to animate him running as fast as the beasts

The Warriors
Thats a tough one... As I already said, I think that the concept art is good but the models are quite bad...And GW releases an image about two months ago which introduced a new style-and it really looked great, so perhaps a mixture of the new concept art and some of the old one...

The Raider/Ravager
Both models are ok, their only downside are the warriors, but this would of course change with the new warrior design
Skulls and corpses to add more detail

The Hellions
My favorite DE Unit/models. They look cool, but hey they are based on wyches not Warriors. And its no helbard since both ends have a blade...

The scourges
Warriors, heavy weapons and Wings...

Talos
The model is ok


CC-weapons should have the style of the Dark Elf ones

DarthVaygr

So the Dark Eldar are a close combat oriented race? From what I'm hearing, they are a very fast army, that is weak by itself, but are very tricksies. Giev them lots of entangle like abilities to ensnare them into CC? Are they ability heavy? Which race is faster, Eldar or Dark Eldar? Not sure what this race's style is. Someone enlighten me

King Raa

Why does everyone claim bikes don't or won't work in DoW - is there some post I missed detailing it to the world?
Because as far as I can tell, you could just make the model slightly smaller than the landspeeder, but in the stats page for it make it fast, and maybe just a bit tougher than a normal sm or w/e... surely... if it floats base it on a landspeeder and if it drives base it on a vehicle thats ground based...

this mod seems like quite a good idea - the bit about bases and getting units - if the dark eldars point isn't to make a base then I doubt they care too much about strat points etc either? so what would happen - because making their req go up on kills might be unfair or disadvantageous to one side or the other... I don't know but more discussion of DE Bases would be useful?

Dalveldrin

Darth: On tabletop they are considered to be a faster army than the Eldar, however on DoW i'm not sure that would be true. All their basic infantry types have fleet of foot like the Eldar. Scourges and Hellions are fast moving. What they are most known for are there Reaver Jetbikes. They are REALLY fast on TT. In addition to things just moving faster, there infiltrators work a bit differently, which allows you to pretty much make them be at the right place at the right time. The infiltration would have to be changed for DoW to just invisibility. Now having said all that, as far as I know they do not use the Webway. So they don't have the teleport capabilities as the Eldar do.... which could make them slower than the Eldar in DoW. Overall, speed and close combat are the main virtues for the DE as I see them. Granted like all armies depends on the player, its quite possible to make a much more ranged army.

When I think of the Dark Eldar, I think ...
Speed
Close Combat
oooo and S&M

Double Post

Should add, in my opinion the greatest thing about the DE are Wyches, it gives them their own feel over other armies. Not to mention Lelith Hesperax is quite possibly the coolest Character in all of 40k. Or at least has one of the coolest stories in the Codex.

Mahu

First I will reply to ThrowN who has been a great help so far!



I agree wholehartedly, a lot of what the Lord will look like will be dependant on the look of the other models, so should probably be put on the back burner. Also I am thinking of adding the option of a Wyche Commander, copying the Lelith Hesperax model and building the Wyches from that.



Again I agree, just copping the picture of one from the "What are the Dark Eldar" link on the first page would do wonders.



Thinking back on it, I do think a direct copy would be the best, I would keep the Halbert the same but make the blade resemble Wyche Elves Blades of Dark Elf Spears but sitll protrude out from the staff.



I am really would like the Wyches to be a combination Dark Elf Wych and Lelith Hesperax, they are the signature unit of the Army and their look is essential.



I was thinking of broken up armor to add to what you said.



My vision of them has them wearing a hood, wearing a lighter version of the DE armor, exposed arms, splinter pistol in one hand and in the other a blade. Now the blade, I wouldn't want to do a full sword, but I would like to have something like the blades of that Mandrakes currently have.



I would rather go with a more lizard like look, suits the Dark Eldar better. Let chaos have the mammels. Imagine marines squaring of against Fantasy Cold Ones. As for the speed issue, Eldar should be fast enough to keep up, maybe make the beastmasters walk animation a run.



I would rather almost go all new concept. Within a couple of days I will post my concept sketch.



I would rather not decorate the Raider with skulls and corpses, too Chaos for my tastes. I am rather going with a more "sleek" evil, I want to keep the basic shape and outline of the Raider/Ravager but update it to be more menacing and leaning towards to look of the Warriors.



My mistake, the only problem I see with them is animating a person on a flying board in close combat where the other animations depend on one-on-one ground combat. That is why I recommended a possible jumppack solution. However is anybody has any ideas on how to do this I would really like to know.



Read my mind...



Only thing I see, is making it match the Raiders in design. Also it's supposed to "eat" people, it should look like it can.




O.k. to the others...

DarthVaygr - I think Dalveldrin explained it well. Fast at taking odjectives hard at keeping them. Thought they do have their far share of support units.

King Raa - If anyone finds a way to impliment bikes, I will be forever in their debt. However I assume that it isn't possible and I am not including them for now. Wehn it comes to bases, I think it is a fluff versus Gameplay issue, and Gameplay has to be first. Dark Eldar will have bases, though they may be limited to Warp Gates and rough turret defenses. Further discussion must take place.

Dalveldrin - I agree with you fully (including your comments on Wyches). However I do believe they utilize the webway. Dark Eldar will be just as fast as the Eldar, in fact even more so due to the type of units they have.

Thanks everyone for you support and comments.

DarthVaygr

Thanks Dalvedrin! I can imagine that Eldar players will have fun playing their dark counterparts, which play reasonably the same as normal Eldar. The fluff says that while the Eldar took to strict military discipline, the Dark Eldar tried to appease Slaanesh, right?

Richtofen

bikes WON't work. Bikes are a unit that is constantly moving, the pathfinding issues alone will be horrific let alone the fact that bikes can fall over so how would that be done? Not to mention how would they be done in combat. Making them like landspeeders would in no way shape or form do bikes any justice. If you can think of a way to make bikes the speed demons that zoom around everywhere and behaves like bikes (ie, not the static movement of the landspeeder) then bikes would be an awesome addition.


Dark Eldar are quite different. And nono, ALL Eldar hate Slaanesh and chaos. When an Eldar dies, his/her soul becomes the property of Slaanesh, in which case it will be ravaged/destroyed/tortured. Craftworld Eldar overcome this with spirit stones, which trap their soul in a small stone when they die, so Slaanesh can't get it. Dark Eldar see committing acts of unequalled cruelty will save their souls. Eventually, they became stuck in that path and have become the twisted completely evil eldar that they are now. Dark Eldar are 'allied' with the Craftworld Eldar through the Harlequins, who are respected by both. Craftworld Eldar are considered good, Harlequins neutral and Dark Eldar evil.

DarthVaygr

Interesting. Warhammer fluff is something you can read for hours and still want more! The Eldar use their spirit stones and put them in warithlords, guards, right?

For bikes, give them a strafing attack pattern when they attack, so they circle their prey, like in Homeworld 1 and 2. Different attack patterns for every ship.

Dalveldrin

As for the buildings thing... Eldar live on craftworlds, are there any known Eldar that do not? Other than rogue types thats is.

Only reason I bring that up is, if they don't, keep in mind they have bases in the game too, and the Necron Mod has settled on bases, and they just phase in. I'm not saying its perfect fluff to demand Dark Eldar players have a base, but I don't think its such a rediculous idea to have them get their hands dirty like everyone else.

Mahu

I agree Dalvedrin, there has to ba a comprimise between game mechanics and fluff.


On a sadder note, I might not be that excessable over the weekend due to the Hurricane comming through Florida (I live near Orlando). I will post when I can.

Lord Azrael

Yeah it would take some REAL careful balancing to make Eldar fair without bases. It might be possible, and could be interesting.

Personally, I'm hoping that all the modders balance there races against the 4 basic races, and then compare them to other mod teams. It would be a shame if the Dark Eldar are fun to play, but due to fast movement etc, create a huge advantage against Necrons or Tyranids.

In a happy go lucky ideal world all the mods will hopefully work with each other.

Mahu

My plan is to make it compatible to the other race mods. First it will be balanced versus the standard races, then I will coordinate with the others to work out any weakness/advatages the Dark Eldar have without, of course, disrupting the overall balance. It might call for the other teams to tweek a few things, but I am fully confident that it is possible to balance all the races, new and old.

Keslov

You guys gotta remember that "good" eldar are the same. They run through the webway attack run away again come back 4 minutes later attack again and steel some bread run away again.... Anyhow relic made good with the buildings for eldar there all warp gates and what not cant the dark eldar have the same?
delvidrin- Exodite eldar dont live on craftworlds they are kinda feral eldar with high-tech guns (basicly gunslinging dinosaur jockies)

Shua_Zane

All I have to say no way does purple spandex give u a 3+ save.
I mean they should have really weak armor :P

Shakrith

Exodites... if only they were a TT army... the fluff sounds really cool: they have comparable technology to craftworld eldar but are savage, ride dinosaurs, and are good at cc. How good would that be for a mod!

sparky

they are chaos , nice idea tho. but i dont like them much but it would be interestings to see them

Shakrith

Exodites aren't chaos. You're thinking of Crone World Eldar; these are Maiden World Eldar. Crone World eldar would be exceptionally cool too...

Keslov

ya goooo exodites and crone world eldar! woo!

Shorty

The Dark Eldar are much faster then the Craft World Eldar. About the Dark Eldar and the Webway, they use it. There "home", the city of Commoragh, even lie in the the tunnels of the Webway. The Dark Eldar even clame to be better at using the Webway then there cousins on the Craft Worlds.

Dalveldrin

hehe good to know

DarthVaygr

Then I will enjoy using them. There needs to be a balance between power and speed. I wouldn't want a race consisting of SM scouts because they move 10 times faster than wartrak!

ThrowN

Some people here might find this useful:
http://www.games-workshop.de/warham...s/wp_03_800.jpg

Cailet

With bikes make them do 'passes' you remember the charging squiggoth barging people aside, have squads of jetbikes do that and rather than have them like normal units have them as a 'big power' like Eldritch Storm is, that needs calling in and is fairly one-shot to disrupt enemies.

Mahu

After three days without power, I am back. I have a Warrior concept sketch (very rough) that I will post later today.

Tegadil

I would love to see a properly done DE mod, even though I'm not sure it can be done. I can only think of one building (a WWP of sorts), and no real reason to capture strategic points. It would be neat to get bonus things (resources, maybe more warriors) for capturing enemies, too.

As far as RJBs, you might be able to have them do passes through units, like how it's described in the codex. A hit and run attack of sorts.

In any case, I'm willing to help where I can to ensure a good DE mod.

DarthVaygr

Maybe give them an attack pattern? The reaver...... *circle strafing*

Mahu

Thanks for your support Tegadil, PM me with what you can do! As far as jetbikes go, that will have to wait until I get my hands on the Modding tools to see if that can be done. For now I would like to get working on the 3D models, I have had scanner problems but the concept sketch will be up soon. I promise.

Mahu

O.k. here my crappy drawing on my idea for the "new" Dark Eldar warrior. After I drew it though I think that the Talbert should be on the Sybrite Upgrade Model.



After playing the Demo. alot, I think Mandrakes would make the perfect "first" troop. Kinda like the Space Marine scout. Maybe get four instead of two. I have to wait until I get the full game because I have no idea how the Eldar play, and the Dark Eldar will play alot like it's cousins.

DE-Yggdrasil

I hear people complain about the lack of ideas for this mod, so here are mine. These are very simple ideas, and I'm surprised no one has come up with these! Rub some brain cells together, people!

The buildings should be only a single webway portal. It would be freakin' awesome if we had Reavers. Definately give us a one-up there. Have it so that they can capture victims, and once they capture a certain amount, they have to evacuate to the webway portal. Have the option to build a warrior squad, or a raider squad that automatically comes with a raider. If a raider dies, the squad automatically deploys.

Also, as a limiting factor, maybe they should have a time limit for capturing the victims. If they don't capture that many and evacuate, or annihilate the enemy in that time, they lose.

Mandor

The Dark Eldar Army is an army of raiders, they hit quick and hard, but are quite fragile. I think they wouldn't build bases, because they strike almost exclusively from the Webway. Even though bases might be a necessary evil in Dawn of War, I think we should limit the number of distinct buildings they should build to advance in a game.

Like Archon Yggdrasil, I think the only building the Dark Eldar should have is their main building: a giant Webway Portal. All units they build should come from this Webway Portal or be immediately available to portable Webway Portals that can be deployed like the Craftworld Eldar Portals in the game. To simulate the DE advancing on the techtree, their main building could be expanded with modules that allow new units/techs. At the same time they should reinforce their parent building to prevent it from being destroyed with all tech attached to it. This way, it would still feel like Dark Eldar, instead of just plain "evil Craftworlders".
With this kind of setup, the Dark Eldar wouldn't need builder units, which I think would be very unlike them anyway. The Webway Portal main building can start with a small attachment (more could be built) that can summon new buildings from the Webway to be attached to the Portal. A problem would then arise as to how to deploy remote structures, like listening posts and deployable portals, on the map at strategic locations. This might be resolved by letting the 'builder buildings' create a seed of a building. This can then be transported by any Dark Eldar unit to the destination, much like the Webway Portal is deployed in the tabletop game. Or it might allow for remote deployment from the base, although this could easily be exploitable.

Mahu

I like your ideas Mandor but I still would like to use bases. They are a necessary evil of Dawn of War, and if we have bases they will leave the Dark Eldar a lot less complicated to get in game. However we can apply a lot of your ideas into the bases to make them alot more Dark Eldar-ish. I still have yet to see how the Eldar play in-game to have my take on it. I want a builder unit to, again, make things less complicated.

On the subject of dedicated raider squads, I am thinking of just making Raiders availibly early in the game from the troop producing base. The Raider is a very week tank and considering the weekness of the Warriors themselfs shouldn't be to unbalanceing. Gives players the chioce of making more walking squads or Raider squads.

Getting back on subject, anybody have any questions or comments on the Warrior sketch. I would like to find a 3d moduler to start on unit construction. Soon I will do a Wych sketch.

CLR

I think that's a great idea but unrealistic as it changes the whole dynamic of play and goes against the game's design. First off what happens if the HQ (webway gate) gets destroyed early on? Secondly, a valid tactic in DoW is to eliminate builder units as to prevent advancement of the opponent - the DE would be exempt of this flaw where as all other races would be burdened by builder units? This is so engrained in the game that the Eldar and SM have the ability to momentarily block production in buildings - DE:1 all_other_DoW_races:0

There were lots of similar proposals for the necrons, since essentially all of their buildings and monuments are pre-built - but it just doesn't make it a balanced race if you forgo builder units all together.

That's my 2 pesos...

Swuppah

Well, Dark eldar should have som kind of buildings, Still they have outposts some places, after all what ive researched, read a lot of stuff about dark eldar, man sopme people are way off, then others claim Dark eldar are Gods of the Eldar race made to battle the chaos gods,
But after tons of talk, their Crommogath (SP) is inside the webway inside the eye of terror, simple way of explaning that they live in another dimension.
Dark eldar buildings are spiky, like a mix of a sm stronghold and the spikes of an ork settelment, or something
just SPIKES,
But maybe add poison to their close combat ability, after all
Dark eldar standar weapons are weaker then Eldar, then again they shoot longer, they are better,
And as most people said, Dark eldar are the fastest race, if we use the new TT rules, they are the only race that can move 12 inches, disembark, and assault, no marines, eldar or tau can do that,
Then again All bikes can do what Dark eldar bkies could before, move really fast.
Dark eldar dont defend buildings they attack, so no defence building or a really weak one, just loads og hp but small attack or something, I like the idea of coming out of a webway. Its one of the things Dark Eldar does to suprise the enemy, why do you think that no one has a startegy against them (warhammer 4000 fluff, or one that dosent work, they dont use it them selves, they attack, slay kill) but nice work on the warrior, but Mandrakes, capes, hoods, wouldnt look tooo good, make them kinda look like their infiltrating or something, they do have shadow skin after all, when you go into infeltrate it DOW, it after my opinion looks best, Raiders weak armor but fast, ravager, a small more armor, still fast and hell of a fire power, just cost pretty much, talos, heck one of the most evil things you can face in cc.
But instead of killing enemies they capture them in nets or something, and drag them back to a slave dropoff or something, back to a webway portal,
the pionts in DOW Strategic points, critical points, maybe they build something ontop of it, that gives them souls or some other thing instad of what Sm, Eldar and orks gets, or something, i would glardly help with ideas, not much of a drawer, or anything else, but ideas i would love to help with, make the dark eldar mod cool

AND THERES NO WAY DARK ELDAR WILL BECOME A EVIL CRAFTWORLD.
After what ive heard on differant forums, a 3rd etidion dark eldar codex is out 2005/2006 yet i dont know if it will i just hope

Shakrith

Dark eldar buildings could be small and spiky with deep purple webway energy (rather the lightning blue of the craftworld stuff). Nets and trophies as well. Not the same architecture as Eldar, but with a dilapidated sense, and more hooked and wicked. For example, it might not only be a portal, but have trophies around it, and the gate is set t oone side of the building's centre.

Double Post

Comorragh (an obviously distorted name of the biblical city) is in the webway. Full stop. The dark eldar are eldar who fled into the webway at the fall, and are like the older eldar except driven by a need for depravity- their whole existence is plagued by Slaanesh.

Mandor

Dark Eldar building by GW: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/...ages/tower3.jpg
Dark Eldar fluff by me (inspired by articles available at EldarOnline): http://panic.et.tudelft.nl/~arnaud/...r/eldarfall.htm

Cailet

That building is awful, look at the Codex Cover for a look at their architecture, then use that style or like the ork base but more refined and darker plus all the trophy racks and stuff.