OrdoMalleus

This Mod is dedicated to the Ordo Malleus the Daemonhunters of the Inquisition and it's Chamber Militant, the Grey Knights. As a Inquisitor Lord you have also access to inducted Imperial Guard troops (Cadian regiments).

v0.8 Ordo Xenos - Deathwatch - 1.3 compatible - is out now
http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/file...nters_Mod;46289

Daemonhunters Mod - Public Forums - English and German
http://www.innocence-proves-nothing.com/forum.html

Holy Orders of the Inquisition Mod Team
Ordo Malleus
Grand Master: OrdoMalleus
AdamBomb
akitoscorpio
Bakuda
DarkWraith72
DBN
DER_julu
frod
KingKong
MaestroRobertus
Mars_3K
Mig Mek
Morat
sroF
Tancred
wolfshadow


Ordo Hereticus
Living Saint: Ironheaded
alejandrinus
ByTe
coffeedryad
Hoelli83
Palii
Thanos
Zaknafein

we need your help ... join up

Allied Forces:
- DeatsHeadIII (USA)
- HIS Righteous Mod of the Imperial Guard (models)
- Necron Mod
- Aralez (map artist)
- ShadowCouncil (map artist)


Become an official tester
We are still looking for testers to support our Mod. If you would like to get enlisted read the terms of use and sign in this thread.
Adeptus Mechanicus ( Tester-Forum )
http://dh.proforcedesign.com/index.php?c=5
We will grant you access to the private Tester Forum and will refer to you as "official" tester in the future.. you will get mentioned in our releases as well.


Daemonhunters Mod Installer support:
If you have problems with the installer please visit our Forum
http://dh.proforcedesign.com/viewforum.php?f=4
This thread gets monitored by Mod Team members and they will offer you help.
Please include your warnings.log file located in the DoW folder after a problem occured..


So if you would like to help - in any way - please contact me via private message or e-mail OrdoMalleus@innocence-proves-nothing.com.

OrdoMalleus

Release Notes 0.78 - 1.3 compatible

- Colour bleep problem fixed
The problem that when playing a mod such as Deamonhunters some or all your colour
selection bleeds to the enemy SM colours has been fixed.
(The only problem is that the SM Force Commander still gets the DHs colours, all other units are "clean")

- Win condition fix (Assassination, Anhilation and Destroy HQ have been fixed)

- Area damage hurts own units
Special attacks, flamers and frag grenades hurt friendly units and even the originator.
This severe bug has been fixed.

- Assassins
Several problems with Assassins has been fixed.
Culexus Assassin is now a very efficient Commander-Hunter.

Release Notes Hotfix v0.77 - 1.3 compatible

Changes
• Grey Knight Dreadnought and the Hellfire variant has been reviewed –
new model and new weapons based on the codex
(see the vehicle section for more details – page 25)
• Some weapon codes have been fixed.

Balancing issue (once more)
• Henchman were too week compared to their costs and other races. They now use more squad cap, are more expensive and can be compared to Eldar Guardians or even SM Scouts
• Grenade Launcher for Henchman was not available due to a bug that has been fixed, “new” weapon upgrade available when the Librarium has been build
• GK Squads take one more squad cap than their equivalent SM counterpart, thus GK SM cost 3 cap
• Gun-Servitor a new troop type giving Daemonhunters increased Heavy Firepower like Heavy Bolter, Multi-Melta and Plasma Cannon.
• Melta Damage has been reduced, while the rang has been increased, that should make them more useful. Multi-Melta is now available for Gun-Servitors, Dreadnought Multi-Melta is now as powerful as the previous Melta variant.
(no matter how short ranged a weapon is DoW always use max range 25’’ thus Pistols (TT 12’’) and Shuriken Catapults (TT 12’’) double their range. In previous versions the melta gun had a range less than 15 and thus not always fired, now the range has been increased to 25’’ but the damage has been reduced dramatically)
• Steel Legion gets access to grenade launchers as soon as a Librarium is build.
• Acolyte has no longer access to Melta Bombs, use Henchman Melta Guns to counter enemy tanks.
• GK Dreadnought and Hellfire Hitpoints have been considerably reduced.
• Steel Legion Sergeant has no more Melta-Bomb
• Land Raider gains the “Machine spirit” ability at HQ2 and has less HPs than the SM variant
• Sacred Hull and Blessed Fist researches were too powerful, have dramatically been reduced, should be balanced now
• Steel Legion Sentinels are no longer a squad of 1-3 but single units like any other vehicle, thus no more path finding problems and a lot weaker unit, squad cap is calculated correctly, too
• Steel Legion Heavy Weapon Team armour type has been changed, they are more vulnerable now but still very good (infantry heavy high)
• Inquisitorial Stormtrooper are much more expensive – like normal Space Marines – and have therefore a lot more hitpoints
• Reduced cost of tier 3 by 100/50 and 25 seconds (like SM or Chaos)
• Justicars and Acolyts gain this health increase, too (like Aspiring Champions and Space Marine Sergeants)

Release Notes Hotfix v0.65

Redesigned Tech-Tree
We got lots of requests to streamline the tech tree. It seems that the amount of possible researches are simply to much for most of the players. Most of the limitations have been removed to allow you to play Online Games with other races.

- We included some researches into the Headquarter upgrade (Tier 1 and 2). So now as soon as you upgrade your HQ to Tier 1 or 2 your units will improve automatically.
1.) Grey Knights Nemesis Force Weapon damage is increased
2.) Grey Knights Space Marine, Inquisitorial and Steel Legion troops health increases
3.) Grey Knights max amount of Weapon Upgrade +1 per Tier
- We removed the Honourable Inquisitor. You will start with a worthy Command unit instead - Inquisitor Lord Coteaz himself.
- Holy Inquisition is no longer needed for the Librarian building. Thus you can start building Chamber Militant (Grey Knights) or Steel Legion Barracks and have weapon upgrades. Well the building itself is no longer needed. The production of units was transferred into the Thunderhawk.
- The Exterminatus Activatus building is no longer needed. The Chamber Militant has been altered to allow Deep-Striking Grey Knights right from the beginning (as mentioned in the codex)
- The Grey Knight Brother Captain is only available as Terminator squad leader upgrade. But cannot be purchased any longer as a “command” unit.
- The Grey Knight Grand Master is necessary to have access to Terminators and Dreadnoughts and Land Raider. But no Relique is required anymore for the Grey Knights, just like it is mentioned in the codex.
- Assault Terminators are no longer available.
- Research for the Assassins is now included in the base price and will be available as the Tier (HQ level) increases.
- The Steel Legion had a hard time. Mainly because they hit nothing due to low accuracy. Well DoW offers the possibility to upgrade units by spending more resources than usually. We did it that way and now the Guard hits 20% better and cost 5 resources more. So now they are nearly as good as Space Marines concerning the accuracy. They still die like flies

Bugfixes
- Thunderhawk Stormbolter Firing Animation was buggy
- Steel Legion Heavy Weapon Team had a looping die animation
- Chimera, Salamander and Rhino could be placed and transported in each other
this is no longer possible
- The GK upgrades made them too strong in the end. The GK are now better in the beginning, but not as powerful as they were once full maxed up
- Squad Leader Upgrades were too expensive, now the cots are calculated correctly
- Acolytes were build too fast, no it takes more time to upgrade them
- Squad Leader had not enough hitpoints, their values has been increased
- Command Platoon is more expensive but has therefore more hitpoints

Release Notes v0.6 - Armageddon Steel Legion Edition
Changes
-The Tech-Tree was redesigned. Most of the Limitations have been removed to allow you to play Online Games with other races.
-Holy Inquisition is no longer needed for the Librarian building. Thus you can start building Chamber Militant (Grey Knights) or Steel Legion Barracks and have weapon upgrades.
- The Exterminatus Activatus building is no longer needed. The Chamber Militant has been altered to allow Deep-Striking Grey Knights right from the beginning (as mentioned in the codex)
- The Grey Knight Brother Captain is only available as Terminator squad leader upgrade.
- The Grey Knight Grand Master is necessary to have access to Terminators and Dreadnoughts and Land Raider. But no Relique is required anymore for the Grey Kights, just like it is mentioned in the codex.

Bugfixes
- inquistorial stormtroopers veteran sergeant was build faster than a regular stormtrooper, same thing with platoon sergeant, now fixed 30 sec each
- Vindicare Assassin was unbalanced and a Über-unit. Well he is still very effective against command units and vehicles but now in a reasonable manner. The Vindicare researches are now purchased with the unit, thus the Vindicare is much more expensive
- All Assassins now use up one squad cab point not the 5 they used to
- Acolyte – sorry I used the German expression Acolyte
- Callidus C’tan phase sword was missing, thus no close combat ability .. useless
Also new values, less damage against vehicles and buildings.
- Callidus Neural Shredder: range was too long 30 should be 18 and it didn’t use the flamer template – as specified in the codex – weapon stats were fixed to due the information provided in the codex

OK, no more long talking, here are the new ingame models available in this release:

- Inquisitorial Henchman and Acolyte
- Inquisitorial Stormtrooper and Veteran Sergeant
- Steel Legion Infantry Platoon and Sergeant
- Steel Legion Storm Trooper and Veteran Sergeant
- Steel Legion Colonel
- Steel Legion Chimera
- Grey Knight and Justicar

Mig Mek

sounds awesome i just dled so i will write back when i try it out also try talking to lord dante and dragorago about useing there models i'm sure they would let you use them if you gave them credit

Cable

Ordo + co, thankyou so much for doing this :bandit:

However, I have the 1.1 patch and it doesn't work. The game starts, I press escape to skip the THQ animation and movie. The, for about a second the DoW loading screen appears but then the games closes down and takes me to my desktop.
Then, I tried leaving the intro and the THQ animation to run through but the same thing happened.

So now I'm gonna uninstall my game, reinstall it and try it.
I'll post back in about 30 minutes....

akitoscorpio

ooooooh I wanted this mod Badddd....... I might have to jump in once it's a bit more compadible to the lateest version.

Morat

That was fun. I played using version 1.1, and it didn't crash. There was a problem, though: The units didn't get the right weapons. The Stormtroopers got normal Guard weapons (like they have in the campaign), the Grey Knights could get Missile Launchers and Plasma but not Psycannons, etc.

By the way, are you planning to change the Terminators into Grey Knight Terminators?

OrdoMalleus

Morta:
>There was a problem, though: The units didn't get the right weapons.
>The Stormtroopers got normal Guard weapons (like they have in the campaign),
> the Grey Knights could get Missile Launchers and Plasma but not Psycannons, etc.

In this realease you are able to add plasma and rocketlauncher to grey knights. This 'feature' will be removed as soon as I got Cadian infantry platoon in the mod. They should be your heavy weapon support.

Other weapons like i.e inquisitorial stormtroopers weapon are already adjusted. Only the names are not changed yet. That means yous InqST use hellguns - better laserguns - similar armour piercing values like bolter but with less damage. The weapon skill of InqST are also upped.
Grey Knights already use incinerator (heavy flamer) and psycannons (heavy bolter that can fire while moving).
You pay for it, but flamer and heavy bolter are displayed. The only unit using real heavy bolters are the InqHenchman.

If you are interesed in what values are used in the mod check out:
http://www.innocence-proves-nothing...Mod-values.html

>By the way, are you planning to change the Terminators into Grey Knight Terminators?
You can bet I do ! They will have a psychic power (i.e. 'Smite') to simulate their psychic power 'holocaust'.

Cable

PM sent Ordo....

OrdoMalleus

If you have problems with the mod please check the warnings.log in the DoW directory.

21:21:33.5 MOD -- (mod manager) Failed to read field from MOD definition file 'daemonhunters.module'
21:21:33.6 GAME -- Failed to find mod Daemonhunters

Please note the DoW 1.0x versions need a dh.module and the DoW 1.1 version requires
the 'daemonhunters.module' file. So if these lines do not match your version download
the other installation version and follow the instructions appropriate to your version.

Relic changed the path where mods have to be placed, so using the instructions of
the 'other' version will not work.

akitoscorpio

If anything it's about time some people started patching there games anyways,

JamieDOWFiles

Mirrored at DOWFiles.com

OrdoMalleus

It seems that I made a mistake in the installation for DoW 1.0x.
I told to use the shortcut with "<Dawn of War-folder>\W40k.exe" -modname dh
but it turns out that the correct command line is:
"<Dawn of War-folder>\W40k.exe" -modname daemonhunters

If you experience problems with the Dow 1.0x version please try this 'patch'

Cable

Thanks Ordo I got it working, funnily enough before i read this post.... I was just playing around. Anyway, thanks for your time helping me and I'm playing it now. Do you want me to look for bugs or errors???

OrdoMalleus

AdamBomb:
>Do you want me to look for bugs or errors???

If you try this mod please bear in mind that this mod is only two days old.
I released it for test purposes only. Thus I will highly appreciate any feedback
about this mod.

I will try to assemble a team of beta testers, so that in future releases the
amount of errors will decrease. If you would like to recive pre-releases post me
a private message with your e-mail.

DarkWraith72

I am just wondering: how far are you going w/this mod? The Ordo Malleus is an awesome organization and it would be fun to play as them. Are you going to give a psychic power to each squad as every Grey Knight is a psyker. If you have not already you should read the novel, "Grey Knights." I could help provide a storyline for single player if you want as I am currently writing my first amatuar short story.

OrdoMalleus

DarkWraith72:
>I could help provide a storyline for single player if you want as I am currently writing my first amatuar short story.

This would be fantastic! But I have to admit I don't know how to implement a single player modul - at the moment. But if you plan to fill this gap you will be very welcome.

Concerning the GK:
I will stick to the codex. Thus all GK use their psychic powers to use Nemisis power weapons which will be available in later releases and will be handeled like seer council weapons (at least this is the idea).

GK Terminators will get their 'holocaust' psychic power and the GK Grand Master (Captain if incl.) will get access to psychic powers like Librarians.

grizzle

for the current release why not have a custom texture by xen

OrdoMalleus

grizzle:
>for the current release why not have a custom texture by xen

Can you arrange a new Grey Knight Texture. I'm working to full capacity
because we will release a new version of the Daemonhunters Mod v0.1 !
in a few minutes... so stay tuned!

Cable

Here are some screenshots from the upcoming release of the Ordo Malleus mod:

grizzle

alright, I'll organize something of a texture

how bout a skin for the force commander that makes him like look coteaz? Then for the lesser inquisitor you can use toth.

btw When alienhunters comes out you and I should make a deathwatch ordo xenos mod.

akitoscorpio

That could work.. I think a reskin of a normal marine for a Grey knight is Really not doing them justice though.

I wonder what ever happend to Dante... he had some great Greyknight models.

OrdoMalleus

Daemonhunters Mod v0.10 released - 22.11.04
Read first post ...

DeathsHeadIII

Couple things I noticed would need to be changed if you wanted to keep this more in line with the table top game..

1) There are currently no limits on the Inquisitors (Col Brohm models..) you can build entire armies out of them and they dont cost you for squad cap usage. Should be a quick and easy fix for ya. Recommend a max of 3.

2) Grey Knights are using guns with Bolter stats instead of Storm Bolter stats. I understand the difficulties right now in giving them the graphics of Storm Bolters but it is possible to update the Bolter_tactical to storm bolter damage and fire stats.

3) Psycannons should basically have all the Assualt Cannon stats. Table Top game wise other than range these had the same Str and Armour Penetration as the 3rd Edition Assualt Cannon. Incinerators should be using Heavy Flamer stats instead of the regular Flamer stats.

4) Buying the Heavy Weapons upgrade will allow you to have 4 Heavy Weapons in a standard Grey Knight squad. Dont know if you intended this or not. Table Top only allows 2, unless its a Purgation Squad then you can have 4 max.

5) Grey Knight Termies only get a single Psycannon or Incinerator per squad in the Table Top.

6) Recommend removing the Requirement of an Armoury for producing Grey Knights.. they cost so much and come in smaller squads so its kinda a balance issue right now.. early games you get wiped out by Insane computers pretty quickly.

All in all most excellent work so far. Im impressed and satisfied and will keep my eye on your work. Hopefully the developers kit isnt to far away so we can start seeing models pretty soon. Keep it up.


Deaths Head

OrdoMalleus

DeathsHeadIII:
>1) There are currently no limits on the Inquisitors (Col Brohm models..)
>you can build entire armies out of them and they dont cost you for squad
>cap usage. Should be a quick and easy fix for ya. Recommend a max of 3.

I already thought about the same number. The problem is I don't know how to limit the number of units .. so if you have an idea. But I will try to limit the number of inquisitors.

(On the other hand inquisitors are similar to Apothecary SMs but they 'heal' moral and inspire your troops. You also pay for their better meele abilities.)

>2) Grey Knights are using guns with Bolter stats instead of Storm Bolter
>stats. I understand the difficulties right now in giving them the graphics
>of Storm Bolters but it is possible to update the Bolter_tactical to storm
>bolter damage and fire stats.

Storm Bolter are only Bolters which can be fired while moving thus they have the same armour piercing values with only a bit more damage. All Grey Knights are using the adapted bolter file

Please note that due to some problems I've experienced when I started this mod. Some of the LUA files have been changed instead of generating new files.
I.e. Grey Knights still use the space_marine_squad_tactical file and their weapon is the space_marine_bolter_tactical. But both files have been changed to simulate GK and Storm Bolter. Thus you have to read the values in a LUA file to see if they are already adopted or not.

>3) Psycannons should basically have all the Assualt Cannon stats. Table Top
>game wise other than range these had the same Str and Armour Penetration as
>the 3rd Edition Assualt Cannon. Incinerators should be using Heavy Flamer
>stats instead of the regular Flamer stats.

Incinerators already using Heavy Flamer stats instead of the regular Flamer stats.
Psycannons will be based on Assualt Cannon stats in the next release. That means it will do less damage against infantry but has advantages against vehicles. (assault cannon terminator)

>4) Buying the Heavy Weapons upgrade will allow you to have 4 Heavy Weapons
>in a standard Grey Knight squad. Dont know if you intended this or not.
>Table Top only allows 2, unless its a Purgation Squad then you can have 4
>max.

Exactly - so I just take the Heavy Weapons upgrade to be renamed as 'Upgrade Grey Knights to Purgation Squad'. Sounds good to me.

>5) Grey Knight Termies only get a single Psycannon or Incinerator per squad
>in the Table Top.

As mentioned in the Release Notes GK Terminators are not adopted yet.
This will be done in the next release - psychic power and one upgrade.


>6) Recommend removing the Requirement of an Armoury for producing Grey
>Knights.. they cost so much and come in smaller squads so its kinda a
>balance issue right now.. early games you get wiped out by Insane computers
>pretty quickly.

I started with GK available right from the start and all difficulties up to Hard are really boring, because the GK are really strong.
I have to admit that I never played on Insane Level, but this is for pros only I think and most of the players are using Hard or easier ...

I would rather like to make the Cadia Infantry Platoon available without limitations. I don't know if this would help. I think Daemonhunters should have a hard time in the beginning just like Imperial Guard.

You should also be aware that GK are really weak against tanks and that you will need GK Hellfire Dreadnoughts and Cadian Leman Russes do defend yourself against vehicle attacks. This will improve once Sentinals will be available in the Mod and the Cadian Platoon gets Heavy Bolters and Missile Launchers

But balancing is a crucial point for a Mod so please send in your battle reports.


>All in all most excellent work so far. Im impressed and satisfied and will
>keep my eye on your work. Hopefully the developers kit isnt to far away so
>we can start seeing models pretty soon. Keep it up.

Thanx. I hope that Lord Dante and dragorago will join forces with us. We need some good moddlers.

Mars_3K

This mod is a fantastic, showing a lot of potential. A quick question, though: (and this applies to most other mods too) is there a way to change colour scheme to something other than default blood ravens at the moment? Even if we don't yet have the models it would be nice to be able to use the colours. Great work, Malleus, keep it up!

KRMZ

Off course. You need to create a Teamcolour file. And place it in the following directory: w40k\[Your mod]\art\team_colours\[Your mod_race].

Cable

In response to Mars:

Yes you can change teamcolours quite easily. with the mod on, load the game and the Ordo Malleus army is selectable. Just create a new scheme and then when you play a skirmish game just use your new colours.....

Morat

Reguarding the Inquisitor's retinue, do you think the idea I posted in this thread (second-to-last post) would work?

Mars_3K

Oh, right thanks. I was fiddling about with the interface trying to 'trick' it into giving me an alternate colour scheme. I'll give that a try, cheers

Cable

^^ lol no problem....

OrdoMalleus

Morat:
> Reguarding the Inquisitor's retinue, do you think the idea I posted in this thread (second-to-last post) would work?

Sorry for not responding earlier. I read your post about henchman. Already thought about dividing henchman into close combat and heavy weapon support henchman. Would give you a better selection, cause i think noone should mix both types. That would make them too weak. But close combat servitors are not too good meele units, because they are 'normal' human beings...

Right now I try to include sentinal (looks good) and chimera into the mod. Troops will be next. We will discuss this issue than.

Cable

To give the Grey Knghts a more 'Inquisitorial' feel I've changed the namesof the buildings.... here's the lo-down:

Stronghold = Monastary
Monastary = Templum
Fortress Monastary = Fortified Templum
Listening Post = Pillar of Faith
Chapel-Barracks = Battle-Brother Temple
Armoury = Purgation Cathedral
Machine Cult = Mechanicus Creatus
Sacred Artifact = Holy Shrine
Orbital Relay = Exterminatrus Activus

Some names will be changed when I can think of better ones lol.....

Also, if any of you want to suggest something we will take a look at it....

OrdoMalleus

DeathsHeadIII:
--Storm Bolters in the Table Top version of the game actually can shoot 2 shots at full range on the move while regular Bolters shoot 1 at full range and 2 at half range. The Terminators in DOW use Storm Bolters. I recommend changing the Min Max damage in the Bolter_Tactical file to be the same as the Storm Bolter file. The values in mine do not reflect the changes.

Didn’t know that Storm Bolters are already in game. I don’t use Terminator, never reach that level of development. Thx will take a look at that and use the in game DoW values.

--Maybe Make Cadian Infantry available from the HQ building and have access to their heavy weapons without an Armoury.. just a thought. I would add another weapons upgrade for the Storm Troopers using the plasma weapon model but add a high damage stat and armour penetration to it to make a Melta Gun that would be good against tanks and HQ units. Give it a shorter range and no accuracy penelty for firing on the move.

You are not alone with your wish for melta–weapons I think I will include this in the next release. But help about stats would be welcome. I think it will be like a plasma against vehicle but I don’t think against HQ units - just tank killers.


-- Yes. Hellfires are essential for stopping vehicles in a Grey Knight army.. (those or Land Raiders..) Personnaly my TT army has a Dread, Land Raider, and Land Raider Crusader, but I have 3 Dreads available for small games where a Land Raider is impractical.

Well I think you will be glade to hear that cadian sentinels will be available in the next release ( extra armour and Autocannon – ‘good’ against most vehicle)

But balancing is a crucial point for a Mod so please send in your battle
reports.

-- Main problem is being able to hold of the enemy HQ (mainly ork Meks) early in the game when the computer likes to bum rush. With a normal space marine army this can be done with my own HQ. The Inquisitor Lord model isnt able to cope with a Mek so I will work around some more and try to figure out what else can be done.

Well Inq Lord is not to be send against other HQs expect daemons I think. But psychic powers should help. Perhaps we should change the available powers that would be ok I think - anyway InqLord should get another psychic power at higher tech-level that vfeature is not working in the current version.

-- Anytime. Im a veteran Table Top gamer and I understand what the LUAs say enough to be able to change numbers to make them do what I want them to do so as I said if you need any help just let me know.

If you like check the luas for errors or wait till I release the new stats table will be a lot easier.

Mars_3K

I've been playing with it today against harder chaos armies and most of my problems stem from the desperate struggle to reach grey knights on the tech tree. What tends to happen most games is that I have to spend all my cash teching to reach something which can holds its own against power armour and boltguns. This in itself isn't too big a deal, but by the time I get there I'm in a critical situation where my 'tank' (ie. the Inquisitor) has gotten 7 shades of Hell knocked out of him trying to hold the line alone for his supporting units. When I finally get my grey knights out my base is being over-run and I can't return my hero to the fray because I'm too busy reinforcing what's there on the map and the grey knights alone can't shrug off the incoming firepower long enough to allow supporting units to fight back properly. That's my general take on the situation as it stands. I haven't tried it against the other races yet, although I imagine it's a similar sort of outcome against SM and Orks. Eldar may be a different story given their relatively fragile nature.

On those occassions where I've tried using numbers to my advantage, stormtroopers are the next toughest thing available, but they get smacked down pretty hard in hth combat. If I try using henchmen to hold the line with guard offering support fire, the guard can't kill them fast enough so my line invariably crumbles. It's like trying to use Eldar guardians to keep the enemy at bay whilst supporting them with something which takes ages to build up to the strength they need to be to do any significant damage.

I'll do some more playtesting and see if it isn't just me being sucky at learning the optimal build order. Gonna have another crack at it right now!

DeathsHeadIII

Yes I to have had some problems with getting wipped on early in the game.. so far Orks and Chaos hurt bad when they send their HQ to stomp on me. I can stem Orks for a while by building at least 2 bolter turrets before I build armoury or listening posts but I must build at least 1 power generator. But I still get beet eventually.. most I can do is hold them back till they get their little trucks with artillary cannons on or their version of dreadnoughts (killa kans).

Eldar I can beet back with Imperial Guard fairly easily as long as I have at least 1 bolter turret. But dont try taking the fight to them with Imps.. they are good for base defence but not much else.

Chaos Hqs beat me down before I can get moving.. trying new strategies with them.. hopefully I can get something that will work.

Deaths Head

Mars_3K

Just had an epic battle with the harder chaos AI on blood river! This time I tried to stick to just Henchmen, Inquisitor and Grey Knights. It so very nearly worked. I mixed in the odd turret to buy me some time when I had to replace units and had little else to beat off the enemy with, positioning them around outposts for maximum effect. I was playing take and hold and control area so I also had to make sure I could take points from cpu control when it really mattered. This was most likely the ultimate factor in my defeat. I may go back at it again with only annihilate enabled.

There was the odd occasion where I managed to get on the attack, chasing around broken units in the hope of finishing them off, but they always managed to eventually find someone, somewhere to cover their retreat. I eventually managed to get two squads of Grey Knights all filled up and fully equipped with Incinerators, but by the time I'd gotten to that stage my inquisitor was about ready to fall over and I had little else to support the knights with save my heroic turrets and defences. I tried to strike the right balance between infantry and defensive placements, I think I just about got it. The only times when i really felt I was gonna get it bad was when I had to push to retake critical points and avoid a take and hold defeat.

Perhaps most importantly, this time I built 3 squads of henchmen to support my Inquisitor as opposed to just the two point-takers I normally stick with. This worked pretty well for a while. The trick is to break one squad with overwhelming focused fire, then use the Inquisitor's ability to help crush the morale of the next squad. Even if you don't annihilate them right out, it still gives you the room you need to get on the offensive and produce some Grey Knights in the meantime.

Basically the more squads you have on the field at any one time, the faster you can reinforce, but this leaves less room for Grey Knights until you spend that precious 150 req on the squad cap upgrade.

What would I change? Maybe henchmen should get a discount on heavy bolters (they are working for the Ordo Malleus after all )? if they can get their 'gear out just a little sooner, they could lay down the smack enough to allow the Knights to make their move. Fluffwise, are henchmen supposed to be present on the field in such numbers, anyway? It might be an idea to swap henchmen with guardsmen and vice versa. That leaves 50 requisition to play with, quite crucial at the start of the game when grabbing points is mostly what you use the first available infantry for. Failing that you could up the cost of guardsmen, (increasing their number accordingly) and do the reverse for henchmen. Then it's up to the player to decide if he or she wants to bolster their starting units or spend the resources elsewhere.

Other armies rely on mobility, brute strength or overwhelming numbers. This army tries to combine both strength and numbers, so it's very difficult to capitalise on one or the other (since they necessarily rely on each other in this case). I know you guys will figure something out, though.

If anybody wants the replay, do let it be known.

Can't wait for next release!

Morat

Perhaps it would help if the time needed to tech up to Grey Knights was reduced a bit. Maybe the cost and build time of Stormtroopers or Cadians could be reduced as well, so that they can be used as a meat shields while you're teching up.

Cable

lol I haven't had any of these problems...... Then again it might be because erm...... no idea. When I get an BM/GC/FS/CL rush at the beginning of the battle I can always seem to kill it......
I would like to see Grey Knights available early on....SM can get their standard troops out with a barracks......

OrdoMalleus

DeathsHeadIII, Mars_3K, Morat:
Thanx for your battle reports. I think that something should be done about geting wiped out before you get access to the Grey Knights. Thus Cadian Infantry Platoon (but not Inquisitorial Stormtrooper) will have immediate access to grenadelauncher upgrade. Plasma guns still needs an armoury. Max Upgrades for Cadian Platoon has been limited to 3. (Heavy Weapon upgrade will give you 2 more upgrades in future releases)

If you like, test if this will do any good. You can download this change
http://dow.huwig.de/daemonhunters-c...-data-wh40k.zip
unzip and copy the files in your '<Daemonhunters-Mod-folder>/attrib/weapon/' directory and overwrite the existing files. (please backaup the folder before applying this change)

Please note that this change is mainly for Mod testers. If you are not sure how to apply this change please wait till the next release.

Mars_3K

Ok I installed the update and fired up DoW. Now I dunno how much difference the update itself made to the gameplay, but this time I scored a victory for the Imperium. I used only annihilate this time and I suspect that my initial conclusions were true - that having take and hold/control area enabled was the primary cause for my inability to grab a win. This time I could pick my fights and take the fight to the enemy with only one turret needed to hold them back in the first stages of the game.

As for the battle, I thoroughly enjoyed it :fight:

Perhaps I'll return to the fray later with the above win conditions all enabled, see how effective the update is. I think it's worth mentioning that I didn't use the guardsmen until I was at tier 2 - so having GLs earlier didn't really help much, and I only requisitioned one squad throughout the game. The Grey Knights took control of the army later on, with some lingering henchmen offering fire support. I didn't get around to building any of the new orbital relays, so i'm not sure how useful they woulda been (perhaps I shoulda saved game for experimental purposes?).

Still, really good fun. Will play about with it a bit more and post my findings.

Cable

Just some info that I think a lot of you will like:

I suggested to Ordo that we create the meltagun..... and he did.... YAY!!!

This is the description for the meltagun:

- Upgrades one member of the squad with the indicated heavy weapon
- feared by tank commanders for its ability to destroy vehicles with ease
- Very short range (lol it has a range of 10, and bearing in mind a laspistol is 20... you gotta get pretty close)
- effective against vehicles

Anyway, this thing is weak versus infantry, just for balancing purposes but is one of _THE_ most anti-vehicle weapons available.
Also at the moment the plasma gun is being used to represent it but I'm starting work on a model for it.... MUWAHAHAHAHA

OrdoMalleus

Daemonhunters Mod v0.15 has been released 24.11.04
Read first and second post of this thread or visit
http://dow.huwig.de/

Morat

I just tested out the latest version, and I had a lot fun with it. I did encounter a strange bug, though. I selected Space Marines as my opponent, but they had Ordo Malleus soldiers instead of their normal troops. I saw them using Grey Knights, a Grand Master, and Grey Knight Hellfire Dreadnoughts. I also encountered one relatively minor bug: There's no limit to the number of normal Inquisitors you can get, and they don't take up population space. So, you could theoretically fill the map up with Inquisitors if you wanted to.

Anyway, here are my thoughts about the units:

Grey Knights - Very cool. I'm quite happy with the way they're turning out. It might be good if the Psycannon did a little bit more damage to vehicles and buildings (in the TT, they have a significantly better chance of penetrating armor than a heavy bolter does), but otherwise they seem great. Are there any plans to add a teleport attack squad? Maybe the current Grey Knight squad could be renamed the Purgation Squad to help differentiate it from deep striking Grey Knights.

Grey Knight Terminators - I thought the Terminators would be a bit tougher. With their Nemesis weapons, they should be clearly superior to Space Marine Terminators in close combat. Its a bit hard to judge, but I don't think they were all that much better than regular Terminators. Also, are you planning to let them take Psycannons and Incinerators instead of the normal Terminator upgrades?

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers - These guys were fun. I had a squad of Stormies with two Meltaguns kill two Grey Knight Hellfire Dreadnoughts and an upgraded Pillar of Faith. It was extremely hard to keep the Stormies alive long enough to get their Meltaguns into range, but the effect was worth it.

Sentinel - I built one Sentinel, but I couldn't get it to attack. I think it may be bugged, but I'd have to test more to be sure. I think its movement speed might have been a little bit too high.

Inquisitorial Henchmen - Do the henchmen confer any benefit on the Inquisitor, or vice versa? Since they're meant to be used together, I would think that the henchmen on their own would have a severe limitation when not combined with an Inquisitor (ie, having really low morale or something), but I haven't really tested enough to find out.

Grey Knight Dreadnoughts - Have these been changed at all compared to regular Dreadnoughts? If not, would you consider increasing the cost slightly and giving them an HP increase, to represent Blessed Hulls? Giving them the option to take Psycannons might also help differentiate them from their Space Marine counterparts, even if the option wouldn't be used very much.

One last question: Will you be adding a Brother-Captain to the Grey Knight Terminator squads? For stand-ins, you could use an Assault Terminator as the Brother-Captain for the regular Terminator squad and vice versa.

By the way, would it be much trouble to change the name of the 'sergeant' for the Grey Knight squad to 'Justicar'?

Mars_3K

My thoughts are much the same, except when I used Sentinels on some cultists their feet started to light up with something and I'm fairly sure their health was being depleted so I think the autocannons were working but not doing very much damage (same as predator counterpart, right?). I'll double-check that another time.

It would indeed be nice for the henchmen to get a boosted role above that of point-taking and light fire support. Most, if not all of the 6 different henchman types listed in the codex are fairly easy to port over into this mod, it's just a matter of finding a way to do it without cluttering up the squad options to the point where it becomes impractical to do so. You could offer additional upgrades from one of the buildings (like the HQ) - one upgrade for each henchman type that effects all henchmen squads and leader units when they are attached to those squads (much like a seer council). The upgrades would of course all need to be minor and cheap/quick (as in TT) to access to prevent players from relying on henchmen the whole time. Do independent characters receive any squad bonuses from squads they're attached to? If so, then I guess the above approach could work. You could just treat them as a multiple cheaper, lighter versions of the seer council that can be used in greater numbers.

E.g.
Upgrades could include:

Familar: faster recharge time on weaken resolve
Heirophant: harder to break and/or rally option
Acolyte: squad toughness increase (like conceal)
Warrior: that's already there with the existing weapon upgrades
Sage: damage increase for squad
Mystic: movement speed increase to represent precognitive abilities?

An idea to kick about, anyway.

I'm really enjoying the mod, and I'm going to try and go up against them with Eye of Terror's Chaos Undivided for a classic face-off scenario. :fight:

I'll try and get around to posting up some screenies from my most recent encounter.

As always, great work fellas!

DeathsHeadIII

Been working around on the mod seeing how in line with fluff I can make it and still keep it decently balanced and heres what I came up with so far that I have been working with..

(Keep in mind I only play against Harder or Insance computer opponents so balanced for me means being able to hold me own for about half an hour then take the fight to the computer.. others might call that overpowered..)

I re-added the Force Commander in but I called him Brother Captain. I took his HP down to 1000 and took away all but inspireing precense (sp?) as his only special ability. I made it a 0-1 option (only 1 can be made). He helps out in the beginning but is not able to handle other HQ models on his own (or with a squad for that matter..) I lowered the price down to 200 Req but left power the same.

I made a copy of the Brother Captain and this second BC is used as a Terminator Sergeant if you will, so that when I get Terminators they have a Sergeant.

I removed the Sergeant upgrade weapon options from the Armoury and changed the Sergeant to use only the Power Weapon and a regular GK Storm Bolter (instead of Bolt Pistols or Plasma Pistols) Changed the Power Weapon to match the damage of the Grey Knights regular weapons, but gave it better penetration against all troops, monsters, and commanders (a lot better against troops, just marginally against commanders and monsters.) Gave Justicars melta bombs ability.

Changed Sergeant name to Justicar.

Changed the terminators to use the power weapons and Storm Bolters that Justicars use. Changed the Assualt Cannon to Psycannon and Heavy Flamer to Incinerator. Gave them a max upgrade of 0 heavy weapons (which gets changed to 2 when you buy the Heavy Weapons upgrade.) Made Terminators a 3 max.. ergo you can only have 3 squads of terminators. (Reason for this is apparent in the next change I made.. also TT wise you will rarely see more than 2 squads because GK Termies are very powerfull and cost a bunch.)

Changed the Psycannon to mimic the Assualt Cannon that is used by Dreadnoughts. Trying to find a good price range for this.. 200 is to high IMO but the price for Dread Assualt Cannons is to low.. thinkin 125-150..

Changed Grey Knight cost to 70 - 20 and removed the requirement of an armoury. I gave them a max 0 upgrade but when you purchase the Heavy Weapons from the Armoury it ups them to 2 Heavy Weapons. I made a copy of the Grey Knights and called them a Purgation squad and gave them 2 upgrades so that when you buy the Weapons upgrade it gives them 4 total heavy weapons. I made the Purgation squad a 0-3 max as all Grey Knights use the same Psycannon weapon stats (mimicing Dread Assualt Cannons). Removed Frag Grenades from the Grey Knights abilities (this was merely a hold over from the regular space marines LUA.)

Removed the Inquistor Lord Coteaz from the HQ building and made him the leader upgrade for the Retinue.. ergo you have to buy a Retinue in order to get the Inquisitor lord. Made the Retinue a 0-1 option (ergo 1 max). Changed Retinue to have 0 upgrades so that when you buy the Heavy Weapons upgrade you get 2 heavy weapons max. Added in melta gun as an optional heavy weapon.

Made regular Cadian Imperial Guard available from the HQ as well as Barracks.

All in all I just made a mostly fluffy upgrade for myself. As I am on the road all the time I only play against the computer. Balance wise I so far still have a hard time against the computer Orks and Chaos.I have yet to beat Insane Orks with this and Chaos only once. Eldar as usual pose no problem no matter the difficulty.


These were only changes I made for my personal use and I posted them here to give Ordo and team some ideas. These will be the first time Ordo and team have ever seen them and seeing how its changes I made to their work they may not be happy about it.

I will not send this out to anyone and I will not post them anywhere for download. If Ordo and team would like to know how I made these changes he has my email and I will let them know.. I will not post in here what I did without Ordos permission. Thanks.


Deaths Head

Mars_3K

Deathshead, your setup is certainly more fluffy. I really like a lot of the stuff you've mentioned there, I'd like to see how it plays (I suspect it may be a bit overpowered but really hard to judge these things until you try them). It's quite an extensive list of changes, though. I'm curious as to the developers' thoughts on your setup.

OrdoMalleus

DeathsHeadIII:

Brother Captain:

>I re-added the Force Commander in but I called him Brother Captain. I took his HP down to >1000 and took away all but inspiring presence (sp?) as his only special ability. I made it a 0->1 option (only 1 can be made). He helps out in the beginning but is not able to handle other >HQ models on his own (or with a squad for that matter..) I lowered the price down to 200 >Req but left power the same.

I also would like to include a Grey Knight Captain, with weaker abilities than the Grey Knight Grand Master – like Deaths Head did. Thus give you the opportunity to bring in a good close combat unit earlier in game, because the Grand Master is awfully expensive.

But I would like to limit the sum of GK Grand Master and GK Captain to 1. I already discussed this issue with KRMZ ( he is also working on a Daemonhunters Mod).
Because this would be needed for assassins as well. But we have not yet figured out how to implement it.


Brother Captain for Terminators:

>I made a copy of the Brother Captain and this second BC is used as a Terminator Sergeant if >you will, so that when I get Terminators they have a Sergeant.

Great idea as soon as I got the code from Deaths Head this will be included in the Mod!



Justicar:

>I removed the Sergeant upgrade weapon options from the Armoury and changed the >Sergeant to use only the Power Weapon and a regular GK Storm Bolter (instead of Bolt >Pistols or Plasma Pistols) Changed the Power Weapon to match the damage of the Grey >Knights regular weapons, but gave it better penetration against all troops, monsters, and >commanders (a lot better against troops, just marginally against commanders and monsters.) >Gave Justicars melta bombs ability.
>Changed Sergeant name to Justicar.

Justicar will also be included in the Mod. But I will take a closer look at all weapon and ability improvements to fit the cost - virtue ratio that is used throughout the DHs Mod.
Deaths Head I hope you will understand this limitation.


Grey Knight Terminators:

It is high time that the Terminators in the DHs Mod are adopted to represent ‘true’ Grey Knights Terminators as specified in the codex. Thus most of these changes will be part of the
DHs Mod.

>Changed the terminators to use the power weapons and Storm Bolters that Justicars use. >Changed the Assualt Cannon to Psycannon and Heavy Flamer to Incinerator. Gave them a >max upgrade of 0 heavy weapons (which gets changed to 2 when you buy the Heavy >Weapons upgrade.)

Suggested change: since GK termis can only buy one weapon upgrade they will get immediate access to 1 upgrade, so no research will be needed but max upgrades will be true to the codex.

>Made Terminators a 3 max.. ergo you can only have 3 squads of terminators. (Reason for >this is apparent in the next change I made.. also TT wise you will rarely see more than 2 >squads because GK Termies are very powerfull and cost a bunch.)

Good idea.

>Changed the Psycannon to mimic the Assualt Cannon that is used by Dreadnoughts. Trying >to find a good price range for this.. 200 is to high IMO but the price for Dread Assualt >Cannons is to low.. thinkin 125-150..

Since I already included psycannons these values will be used. If you want start a discussion if the values are reasonable ;-) but before doing so please read the weapons stas analysis provided on our website.

Purgation squad:

I’m not sure but I think AdamBomb already changed the ‘Heavy weapon upgrade’ to ‘Upgrade GK SM squad to GK Purgation squad’.
Since no deep strike ability is available (at the moment) I think it’s fair to use the GK squat this way.

>Made regular Cadian Imperial Guard available from the HQ as well as Barracks.

I don’t understand why you did this? All races in DoW have cheap units which can be purchased from HQ. But only one unit an I think that Inducted Imperial Guards are not necessary for Inquisition / DHs.

Some of you might even refuse to use the inducted imperial guard at all.
I’m not sure if it is possible but I started thinking about one Mod with the following possible “chapters/regiments”:

- GK only
- Inducted Imperial Guard (No SMs only Inquisitorial units)
- Allied SM (no GK or Imp Guard available)
- Puritan Inquisitors
- Radical Inquisitors (daemonhosts, death cult assassins)

Tell me what you think about it…

>These were only changes I made for my personal use and I posted them here to give Ordo >and team some ideas. These will be the first time Ordo and team have ever seen them and >seeing how its changes I made to their work they may not be happy about it.

I think that the changes you made should not be done in vain and most of them sound really good. The Daemonhunters Mod is looking for people how are willing to contribute to the community. Thus I would request you to join our team.

A general note about changing the ‘official’ Daemonhunters Mod :
If you make changes to the mod and you are convinced that they would improve the current Daemonhunters Mod, please send your version (with your documented changes) to OrdoMalleus@innocence-proves-nothing.com.
No suggestion will be ignored but not all change requests will make their way into the next release. If you believe to be treaded unfair post your concern in our Thread. But please give us a chance to look at your changed mod first.

Mars_3K

">Made regular Cadian Imperial Guard available from the HQ as well as Barracks.

I don’t understand why you did this? All races in DoW have cheap units which can be purchased from HQ. But only one unit an I think that Inducted Imperial Guards are not necessary for Inquisition / DHs."

Presumably because later in the game, if you want to build cadian infantry and GK you don't want to have to build two barracks for that purpose. Or it may have something to do with placing a 0-1 unit limit on Inquisitorial Henchmen, necessitating the ability to produce another unit straight off for point-capturing ability until the barracks' construction is completed?

Anyway, good to see a lot of those ideas are being taken aboard.

OrdoMalleus

Check out our updated Homepage at http://www.innocence-proves-nothing.com
with in game screenshots, "tech-tree" i.e list of all available units with basic stats ...