staticweaver

I play mostly Nid's in the TT and havent played agenst Chaos in a while. so the question is this....

What is a khorne berserker? and what is the diffrence between it and a PSM? is it just a CSM with a chain Axe? and how will it fit in with the Chaos army?

The same question goes for the Mega Armored Nob's. I'm assuming that they come into play like obliterators (tier 3). You buy 1 and reinfoce the squad up to 3 or 4.
What are they intended for? anti armor? (I hope) Anti infantry?
so i also assume that in terms of power it will go like this.
1 Slugga Boys (and Shoota boys)
2 Nob squads
3 then Mega armored Nobs
correct me if i'm wrong.

i dont know, but it sometimes seems to me that just adding another unit that behaves exactly like one of the old units, just making it stronger and more expensive, is a little pointless. It dosent chage stratiges, or offer new stratiges. it just gives you another option to do the same things that have been done befor.
but then agen I havent played WA yet so I could be wrong. It's just my opinion.

philgreg

maybe the role of the old nob squad will change?

ArTizan

My impression of mega nobz will be similar to that of the Big Mek, but less abilities and less hit points - A heavy infantry role, effective against vehicles and possibly heavy infantry, but weak to units such as dark reapers, and poor vs infantry - more of a unit to counter the IG's vehicles I would of said, and possibly good vs Dreads and the like.

Gladius 1000

Mega Amored Nobs are probably just a good excuse to bring the Nob Squad Down to teir 2 and give orks a fightin chance,Thogh i havent Played Winter assault yet so i can only make educated guesses.Khorn Beserker's seem like Khorn overload to me,I mean they could have chosen some other Demon of some sort(like Plaugebearer's or Deamonet's(with leather underwear to cover up the parts that would get it a AO rateing of course)).I mean come on Chaos needs more demons from the other chaos gods not another Khorn melee monster...

tonzaboy

Khorne berzerkers is one of my favourite unit in TT, they are chaos space marines with mark of khorne. They have huge chainaxes and all that they want to do is spill blood in the name of their god. I'm just hoping that they are immune to fear just like in TT and that they yell "Blood for the blood god, skulls for the Skull Throne!" that would make me happy

Deen

Nobs with claws are already like mini versions of Big Mek. I think the mega nobs will be stronger than the Big Mek, more like mini versions of warboss.

White_13oy

honestly im happy, Khorne Berserkers are the one unit i wanted in DoW. so im satisfied. and pretty much all beserkers are fearless killing machines. in the codex they say that sometimes after they win they will attack each other. thats how strong the bloodthirst is for them.
EDIT:: is it possoble theat the Mega Nobs will be good against inf and heavy inf but with his abilities good against vehicles?

Hammer_HC

Perhaps they will also have some command and control problems during the game.

I'd love to see them randomly attack friendlies during the game if they're just standing around doing nothing.
That would make the use of Berzerkers a dicey venture to say the least - better keep attacking (which seems inline with what I've read about them in the TT version) with them, or they turn on you.

Now that would be bloodthirst.

them apples

I agree with deen,did you see that video? 1 mega armoured nob took out an entire space marines squad in under 15 seconds.

a big mek can do that but not as fast.

a warboss has mega armour,so my guess is that mega armoured nobz will be the new warboss retinue(body guards)

and normal nobz will keep there current goal-and will not be screwed over with weaker stats.

Dibujante

Well, one mega armored nob did it in melee, which is unlikely to happen.

I see mega armored nobz as ranged fire soaks and a way to mount heavy weapons on a durable infantry platform.

It would be nice if Nobz were reduced to some kind of more reasonable heavy infantry (500 hitpoints or something, maybe a 25% boost on slugga boy damage) and placed in Tier 2. With Mega Armor Nobz picking up the "big an' stompy" slack in Tier 3, that could happen.

Jazhuis

The only problem with this is that Relic has repeatedly said that they do *not* like taking unit control away from the players. This is why broken units still stand there and die if you let them, rather than running away automatically. The closest thing to this effect that I could see would be a slow but constant health drain, like the Bloodthirster, when the Berzerkers aren't in combat. But even that's guessing.

Road-kill

Khorne beserkers worship the (surprisngly enough) Chaos god Khorne. They have one objective-spill blood in the name of khorne and collect skulls for the skull throne of khorne. And it doesn't matter who's blood. Chaos lords are iffy about adding them because they don't give two s**ts WHO'S blood and skulls it is. There's more than one account of Beserkers falling upon thier own chainsword (but Chainaxe preferably) offering their blood to the blood god (Khorne).

Basically, they're psychopathic maniacs who love killing things. And they're utterly fearless. After all, their blood is as good as the enemies as an offering.

them apples

I dont see why they would reduce the nobz hitpoints,on the tt they have 2 wounds and t4

and I KNOW this game is not a direct representation of the tt game.

ConanBuddah

Mega nobz can also teleport so they wont be just a ranged damage sponge they will be mixing it cc with everthing

Deathbypeasents

"Mega nobz can also teleport"

I'm wondering where you picked this up as because mega armor Nobs always move as though in cover.and i have never heard in any fluff of them teleporting.

GRIM Ripper

they said so in a preview (maybe gamespot) that mega armored nobz could teleport at the cost of some of their health. i imagine they have kustom teleporters like the big mek.

eventhorizon

ditto.

also i wouldve liked to see another daemon added to the chaos army...pref daemonettes, but if they wanted to stick to the khornate thing, they couldve done bloodletters...now thatd be scary...

Road-kill

Relic said they could 'port for the cost of some health. Relic have always made it clear that playablility as a RTS comes first. If there's a bit of fluff that clashes/doesn't agree with what they want, they change it. Besides, AFAIK all changes have to be rubber stamped by THQ *and* Gamesworkshop.

fragba1t

unless the vanilla nob squad is dropped a tier, the mega armoured nobz are useless imo.

orks should have got another early tier unit... they dont need any uber units, powerklawed nobz were enough.

van Uber

For the umpteenth time. Do NOT draw any conclusions from a video demonstration. Anyone remember the long video from last years E3 when they showed all those killanimations from DOW? They hade messed with the numbers just to show some intense and cool fighting. It had absolutley nothing to do with how the game worked or was balanced.

With that said. I think MANz might as well be built in the mekshop and work as small early dreadnoughts...

HaXxorIzed

That and having terminators lose to standard nobs is pretty stupid, but meh. Mega armoured nobs are scary, kewl and great firesoaks. Plus they should have those great drunken scottish accents (hopefully)

eventhorizon

i dont see how terminators losing to standard nobz is stupid. in meelee (which they should DEFINITELY lose) or shooting?

Asuka

Well Nobs are the elite of the ork army i guess a MEGA ARMORED one is the super elite of the ork army and since nobs more or less win 1 on 1 with any unit bar hero's and armor i can see MAN's beening able to take on hero's and most armor.

them apples

why would they be built in a mekshop?
relic even said they were considered super heavy infantry.

that mean anti tank would be effective against them,which IMO is unlikely to happen.

Road-kill

It seems most likely the MANz have been added so that the heavy infantry Nobz can go down a tier. Right now, Eldar and Space Marines spam Warpsiders and heavy bolters and the orks get wtfbbqpwnd. Nobz earlier shakes things up a little, and the MANz replace the Nobz as the arseburger infantry melee unit of the game.

Slow_Runner

Well... Orks (at least the ones in WAAAGH! Ghazghkull) have access to tellyportas according to the fluff of the Armageddon War (has that been resolved yet BTW??). The tellyportas are large scale contraptions and invented by a technical mastermind codenamed "Orkhimedes" by the Imperium (there are no reports or sightings of him as of yet, only the results of his genious (tellyportas, Roks, tuned up gargants etc.)).
Downgraded Nobz would be kinda cool, but MANz from the Mek shop would seem a bit daft. And as for people pondering the differences between MANs and regular Nobz, point-wise one Nob costs 20 points, but getting him a Mega-armor costs an extra 30 points (+150%) and gets him a powerclaw, a regular shoota and a 2+ armor save (best possible, ~equal to Terminator armor).

Hammer_HC

LOL - nice

MasterSpartan

Yes, and besides, if you really wanted a small "early dreadnought", They should've added REAL Killa Kans, you know, the smaller Ork Dreadnoughts (That we already have, Killa Kans just sounds better in Relic's opinion), with one Power Claw and a shoota/rokkit launcha.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume Mega Armor Nobz will be like Mini-warbosses, just as Nobz are to the Big Mek. Reducing the Nob squads health to say 600, and the cost likewise wouldn't make them weak, if they were available before the Orky Fort (And besides, it's not like plasma spammers don't kill them already). Also, who's to say the Heavier armor upgrades wouldn't put it back up high? It'd give Orks the Heavy infantry when they need it most. And Nob claws wouldn't make MANs obsolete, First of all, Nobs have a lower armor class, a horrible ranged, (Compared to MANS other races couldn't run away as much from MANS as they could Nobz anyhow) and do not have a Tellyporta . If I'm not mistaken they also have killing animations, in which: They are not damaged and if I remember right, the squad cannot disengage until their buddy is tossed away like a ragdoll. In the Backstory and Tabletop, MANS are supposed to be much more resilient and killy than your average Nob. This is all just my opinion and speculation based upon what would seem a logical choice of option for Orks. Giving Orks Mega Armor Nobz before Nob squads would be like giving Marines Terminators before a Tactical squad. But no matter, we'll still have to see.

them apples

right now the normal nobz stats are fine,

they have lots of health and just average armor

terminators have really good armor and lower health.

the only thing im concerned about is that normal orks(sluggas/shootas) will become obsolete

I think they need a shokk attack gun upgrade option.

van Uber

I wont defend that one to the bitter end. Its just speculation. And frankly its as good as anything else in this thread.

One reason for them to actually be built in da shop is the rather crowded buttons on the hut. In the shop its plenty of room for new units. And if the MANz are single and tough units, they will compare to dreadnoughts even if they infact count as heavy inf.

But the basic line is I dont know, but I find this just as likely as Nobz being downgraded.

KuRtCoS

Err, khorne berzerkers, should be, speaking in TT friendly terms:

+More Armour penetrating power (vs light-medium infantry), those axes can be really good can-openers
+More attack speed (they're CC specialists)
+More movement speed (they thirs for blood)
+Better morale (they're freaking insane)

And, if you ask me, some resistance to psykers' abilities.

them apples

I think they should be built in the fortress,along with the warboss.

ThirdDanScoota

Hopefully they are not like this, as they'll be completely impeding on the Possessed Marines role. Besides, balance is more important than replicating TT.

them apples

yes but the tt IS balanced,so replicating it only requires slight changes.

ThirdDanScoota

Have you not realised the completely different play style of this game compared with TT?

Either way, it's pointless to create an additional unit that does the same thing an already existing one does.

-V-

Not to mention what doe Berserkers do that possesed don't do? Both are hard hitting CC-only units, that seem to function EXACTLY the same in almost all respects...so naturally there's going to be an arseload of overlap between the two, since the two are just diffirent flavors of essentially the same unit.

kefka_101

I haven't seen that video before, do you have a link

eor-l)arknes

Khorne bloodthirsters should be good agasnt tanks and have no moral. Best unit ever.

DarthVaygr

First, it's berzerkers, not bloodthirsters. Although technically they do thirst for blood. Second, in the Table Top they're designed to take out infantry of all kinds (except really heavy ones), not tanks. Do you think an axe could penetrate a tank as well as a metal klaw?

DatonKallandor

Do YOU seriously think a metal claw is better against a tank than a AP bullet? Or a Missile?


Daton

ThirdDanScoota

Khornate Chain Axes make a mockery out of Terminator and Power Armour, thankyou.

Now, as for the metal (power) claw, considering it's sheathed in extremely destructive energies that tear through armour and bone as if it were air, then it's indeed possible.

EDIT: Gah, this is getting a bit offtopic. Beserkers will no doubt be similar to what they are in TT, which is, infantry (and heavy infantry) murderers. The problem is that Possessed already do everything you would expect from a melee unit - they tear up all kinds of infantry, they tear up vehicles and structures, and they're fast moving. Pretty swift and destructive.

I would personally say that Beserkers were a poor choice from the beginning, because they'll simply be very similar but even more limited unit, and therefore be overshadowed by Possessed. They have to be given a unique role, but if they're to stay anything like they are in TT, that's simply impossible.

them apples

its the e3 video that guy took with his camera phone

Akranadas

I guess everyone will just have to wait and see, then we can complain

Spectre01

Beserkers WILL be different from possessed. They will do everything possessed do except do it 2x better.

ThirdDanScoota

Hmm.. I don't know about that. Personally i believe that 'Zerkers will be more effective against infantry and heavy infantry than Possessed (somehow..), but lack any kind of anti-tank power. There would have to be some kind of upgrade that really makes them unique though, otherwise it's just too similar.

Again, Beserkers were a poor choice in my opinion.

Spectre01

Maybe they will have upgradable bolt pistols to plasma pistols like the commanders. I'm quite sure they will be the single most powerfull CC squad unit, the M.A.N. hasn't been seen in a squad yet. And with no morale, would be really hard to take down.

Pokey ork

I actually think the MAN's [i love that name] are in a squad. In the clip we saw in the bittorent thing after they obliterated those marines we saw them rearranging their formation. Id say there just a squad who spread out unlike all the others. And id say there MAXIMUM cap is 3-4 if they are a squad. And i hope to gork and mork i can add my Warboss to that squad. Then DOW would be like a complete conversion of my TT games!

Droog_Janus

I was trying to think where Khorne Berzerkers would appear on the Chaos tech tree! I doubt they'd be Teir 3 units as I think they'd struggle against units like Terminators and Mega Armoured Nobs. I imagine they'd be a Teir 2 unit. I hope they have lots of upgrade options like equipping them all with Plasma Pistols or maybe two or three with flamers!

Slow_Runner

Berserkers might be immune to morale, which is the weak spot with the psm?

And they will NOT be the best CC unit in the game, MANs will .