thudmeizer

The Dawn of Skirmish WA Advanced AI Mod v1.6 is here!

Download Here!

**ATTENTION**
This is meant for Dawn of War WINTER ASSAULT ONLY! No other versions will work as it will error out if you try to run on anything other than the expansion!

v1.6 Changes:
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o New BuildProgram logic (4 each per faction) designed to simplify yet fully customize custom strategy builds.
o "Rush Tactics" now implemented based on above - AI will surprise-rush using a random set unit strategy.
o New AttackPlan logic.
o New streamlined faction build files allow for much easier editing and configuration.
o New building placement code added (Thanks Larkin!)
o New JumpAttackMelee() logic makes jumping melee units much more effective.
o Fixed math.random() - now fully calculates random values.
o Buildings are now built reliable, regardless of the start point placing on the map.
o Saved Game Bug should now be fixed!
o Attack code to deal with Take and Hold Victory condition tested and seems to work.
o SM AI will now favour a mix of both regular Dreads and Hellfire variants.
o And as usual, many MANY other smaller/subtle tweaks/bugfixes/enhancements that you will eventually pick up as you play.

Thanks to everyone on the team for you incredibly hard work getting this compatible with all the major balance changes in WinterAssault and thanks to you, the community, for your patience!

I'll try to have more links up but use the one above for now!

Now DAMN IT go get owned!

newghost

Yay

ThetaOrion

I'll pass along the good news!!

And, thank you.

LarkinVB

Here is a german mirror site !

Danimator

Nice one guys, something to read over the weekend and play with next week opcorn:

D-coy

Will this be implemented in DoWPRO, too?

Would be cool... I'll wait with the DL till you answer.

Cheers, D-coy :buddies:

thudmeizer

Don't worry: Larkin is making sure you get handily OWNED ON A SILVER PLATTER in DoWPro with his own AI 'o' Death! Muhahgahahahahahahah <slobber>

newghost

NM thud, i found my answer on the last thread, by moving the program to the THQ folder

Finaldeath

Nice, glad you got it updated and complete.

Nothing personal, but these thread names are getting a little absurd I'm just going to tweak it for everyones title enjoyment, its no more an annoucement then another other mod after all.

vecctor

w00t. Much thanks.

Akaoz

Okay. First playtest of the 1.6. Me and my drunk budy decided to have a go after a night of heavy drinking.

We played a number of 2 on 2 games with us as SM/Chaos vs different races on different maps. The AI was set to "Hard" in all the games.

For the record; we are not very good players and we used to get our behinds handed to us by the 1.5 on hard quite often.

Here are the results (6 replays) in zip format:

http://dnme.org/DoWWA/Ai%20test.zip



And now I need to get to bed and nurse a hangover...

LarkinVB

Were can I find the maps to watch your replays ?

EDIT: My fault. Just didn't check that I installed them wrong.

Akaoz

Maps? They were all played with 1.41 DoW:WA and the 1.6 version of the mod. On Doom Spiral, Into the Breach and Ice Flow. Aren't they working?

ArkhanTheBlack

Thanks Akaoz for the replays. I wish I would have gotten such replays in the beta phase...
In principle, the problem was in all games the same. Small maps with few strategic points, the AI built too much troops, you made a fast tech and crushed the AI with superior troops. I think this was the most obvious case of the WA teching/obsolete units problem I saw so far.
Nevertheless, before I make general changes, I want to wait for a bit more feedback. BUT I think I can offer you a quick fix to improve this behaviour. This would give you a better game experience and help us balancing out the AI behaviour.


Go to the "Dowai_mod\Data\ai\strategies\hard" folder in your Dawn of War directory and then open the file "buildbasestrategyinfo.ai" with a texteditor like notepad. You'll see big chunks of data like the following, which I call build-programs. Every race has 4 of them.

-- Allround strategy
{
{ 1, 560, 200, 0, 1, "Building", "eldar_hq" },
{ 1, 100, 0, 0, 1, "Building", "eldar_aspect_portal" },
{ 1, 165, 0, 0, 1, "Building", "eldar_warp_generator" },
{ 1, 240, 80, 0, 1, "Unit", "eldar_squad_farseer" },
{ 1, 100, 75, 0, 100, "TurretAddon", "eldar_list_post_addon_1" },
{ 1, 50, 0, 0, 50, "Addon", "eldar_aspect_stone_dark_reapers" },
{ 1, 50, 0, 0, 50, "Addon", "eldar_aspect_stone_banshees" },
{ 1, 165, 0, 0, 2, "Building", "eldar_warp_generator" },
{ 1, 50, 50, 750, 1, "Research", "eldar_fleet_of_foot_research" },
{ 1, 165, 0, 750, 3, "Building", "eldar_warp_generator" },
{ 1, 250, 200, 750, 1, "Building", "eldar_soul_shrine" },
{ 1, 135, 70, 1250, 1, "Building", "eldar_support_platform_scatterlaser" },
{ 1, 165, 0, 750, 4, "Building", "eldar_warp_generator" },...

The numbers 750 and 1250 define the army strength the AI has to fullfill before it is allowed to continue with teching. Normally they've a highlight of 1250 and it seems like this value is too high. The easiest way is to make a find/replace and replace all numbers 1250 with 750. This should force the AI to tech faster. If you've still problems you can also replace all numbers 750 with a lower value.

If this doesn't help, you might also have to modify the squad cap requirement of the rushes. Search for those lines:

{ 1, 10, 0, 0, 0, "Rush", "Prepare" },
{ 1, 10, 0, 1250, 0, "Rush", "Unleash" },

and change the second entry which is 10 in this case to 8 or even 6. That's the squad cap requirement for the rushes.


I hope you aren't too annoyed by this, but at the moment it's the only thing I can do to help you out.
If you want to try it, I gladly appreciate all replays.

ThetaOrion

On Aralez's Desert Gauntlet Map at the STANDARD setting of the AI 1.6 Mod after I let the castle gates down, my Space Marine AI ally on the inside walked out of the castle, walked back in, and walked back out numerous times. It was as if they didn't know where the enemy bases were. They never once came and joined me in attacking an enemy base, even though I showed them the way a number of times. They just turtled up outside, or went back into the castle to hide. The plain vanilla AI at HARD and STANDARD knew where the enemy bases were, assuming they were lucky enough to get out of the castle, but not the 1.6 AI of the Skirmish Mod at the STANDARD setting. And the STANDARD 1.6 SM AI just wandered aimlessly, if any of them actually stayed outside, or they turtled up or pooled up and just stood there. It was really weird. They never once approached an enemy base unless I had already conquered the base and built there. In this situation, the plain vanilla AI was better at the STANDARD setting.

--

Then I went back in and played the same game or layout at the HARD setting with the AI Mod, and at the HARD setting my 1.6 SM AI ally could find the enemy bases just fine, and even led the charge at one point. The AI was as it should be at the HARD setting! It was a great game!! The attacking AI and my ally AI all joined the fight and did lots of amazing things. Suddenly, all of your hard effort was well worshipped let me tell you!! Never had games like that with the plain vanilla!!

ArkhanTheBlack

The standard AI has a modifier that restricts it from attacking if its army isn't weaker than the army of the opponent. This can be quiet annoying if the AI is actually an ally.

The skirmish AI is optimized for hard behaviour. Therefore you'll get the best results on this difficulty level.

LarkinVB

This was repeated soo many times. Play AI mod at hard+ ! I think you should remove easy/standard extra script limitations. I will do so for DoWpro AI. Same scripts for all, level will just influence req/power income.

Klementh

It'd be great to have it like this because there's too much difference between difficulty levels.

Is there a way we can set it manually like that?

Neolink

prolly just go into the dowai mod folder and copy paste all the scripts from advanced(is Harder, right?) into all the other difficulty folders, should work i guess.

anyway, nice work, best release yet imo. the ai fight so hard now it just never lets up on you until it gets what it wants it seems the ally wants to help me alot more now, did you guys change that or something? because on 1.5 it just was not interested in me at all except building a hq in my base, but now if my units are fighting something and losing it seems to send a few squads to come and help out. such as when i was just playing on desert gauntlet a few mins ago, chaos somehow managed to secretly get a bloodthirster into my base, i managed to lure it away with my force commander then after about 20 secs my ally had sent a few pred's over to help out, while still having most of its force on the front line fighting away. maybe its just my imagination or luck though, i thought it was cool

Lefty

whoot!! I just got owned by the AI for the first time in 8 months good job with the coding.

Akaoz

Glad I could help

ArkhanTheBlack

I think it's enough to remove the ridiculous attack restriction. The new build system has a techbreak modifier to slow down teching. This should be enough to make a significant difference in difficulty without messing up the whole AI behaviour.
I've also made some changes because of the weak spot Akaoz found. If the fixes solve those problemes I maybe release a hotfix next week. At the moment I first want to collect more feedback. We'll see if there are more issues to fix.


Yes 1.6 contains support code. They try to support allied attacks and might even abort a attack to save an ally in need. Though I must admit, that this code is not always reliable. Sometimes the AI get 'stuck' in fights with the enemy instead of ignoring them and running to the target position.

Klementh

I am somewhat new to the game and I find hard a little too hard (which is perfect). But I've done what Neolink said (just used the hard scripts instead of the advanced) and played in standard.
The result is that it's still too easy for my taste.
As I see it, it makes the easy difficulty useless even for newbies. Slow down teching could only aggravate it, don't you think?

It's just my opinion.

Tyconius

Cool!

NFIH

If I install this, will it break my custom key binds?

If so, how do I make sure this doesn't happen? (I always seem to encounter this problem every time I do an upgrade to this game. ...)

thudmeizer

The Eldar AI on STANDARD skill does take long to build the Soul Shrine and yes it does have to do with the ArmyStrength factor **BUT** its Standard Skill and can be changed whenever. Most people will play the mod on HARD+ as a) this is ADVANCED AI so if yer having problems already with the vanilla AI then don't both with this mod b) HARD is the best skill to play at as the AI is fully 1:1 with the human player.

So far.. excellent responses to v1.6. Nice early "gift under the digital tree".

Neolink

so hard skill uses all the new skirmish code? i thought i remembered someone saying that anything under harder is just a dumbed down version which only uses some of the new scripts? i always play on harder, i rarely win

ArkhanTheBlack

Hmm, if you copied the info files from hard to all the other folders, the only difference between hard and standard is, that hard makes dynamic builds, which means it may build more vehicle/infantry buildings, depending on their ressources.

If you think this effect has such strong consequences, I should maybe use the techbreak modifier only for easy.
It's nearly impossible to find the perfect compromise for this because the AI difficulty also depends a lot on the map and player count.



This changed in WA. Harder gets now a 20% ressource bonus. Hard is the "no cheat but all AI gimmicks" mode now.

mandrill

UK Mirror

Been looking forward to this. Keep up the good work lads.

thudmeizer

EASY and STARDARD skills are still average in terms of difficulty. They should be easily beaten by any "average" DoW/WA player. HARD skill requires more a "above average" player while HARDER+ you need to likely be a pro-player to divide/conquer.

Aralez

Thanks for your hard work, AI mod guys! This mod should be included with the official patches.

ThetaOrion

Arkhan:

Don't copy the HARD over onto the STANDARD (and EASY), just tweak the STANDARD so that the STANDARD AI of the Skirmish Mod can find the enemy when it is time to do so. It sounds like you know what you are doing, so go ahead and do it.

Sometimes there are maps and layouts that really beg for a STANDARD or even an EASY setting.

So, just tweak the STANDARD and EASY settings so that they are playable and enjoyable to the best of your ability, yet so that they continue to reduce the production capacity of the enemy AI as intended.

There are indeed times and certain layouts or combinations in which I really do want the enemy AI to produce less, especially on some of these castle defense maps where I go in 2vs4 or 3vs5. If I get too many Space Marines on the opposing team and get seriously clobbered to the max at HARD setting, it would be nice (and is nice) to replay those losing missions again but in a lower difficulty mode where those opposing Space Marines produce less, or produce even a lot less.

I personally don't want you to 'break' the STANDARD or EASY by copying the HARD over the top of them. Just do what you know needs to be done to make STANDARD and EASY playable and enjoyable while at the same time maintaining their reduced production capacity for the enemy AI.

That's my opinion on the subject.

Finaldeath

As this is a modification, recompiling the LUA/RGD files that control the resource amount to thier original (old) values, and therefore allowing the AI to operate over 4 difficulty levels, not 3, would be a better idea overall.

More work, but means a lot less "drastic increases" in difficulty.

ArkhanTheBlack

Okay, I think it's almost sure that you'll get a 1.61 next week. I've adjusted the build orders a bit to allow a faster teching of the AI. In WA teching is just too important!

For all players like Akaoz who wonder why there occur some situations where the AI suddently plays weaker than 1.5 a quick explanation:

Skirmish AI 1.0 - 1.5 were using a very similar coding system. 1.5 was very good optimized in the limits of this system.
1.6 contains a complete restructuring of the build and attack system, which is more than 5.000 lines of newly written code.
In the process of this restructuring, lots of balancing parameters had to be readjusted to the new system, and not all of them were perfect. Therefore we now encounter some situations we didn't expect and that didn't occur in the beta phase. But the changes itself are pretty easy to fix. We just have to find out, which of our balancing parameters have to be changed . Late/Mid game seems okay, but early game makes a bit trouble at the moment.

Therefore we'll wait at least until tomorrow for more feedback. Then we'll release 1.61 with the basic balancing fixes and better adjusted standard and easy difficulties.

Until then, we're all open for feedback.

ThetaOrion

Wow!!

Thank you for being so open to feedback and for being willing to make changes to improve the Mod.

It sounds exciting. And, it is appreciated!

Aralez

I watched some replays that Thetaorion had sent me and all i can say is wow! After some attempts to play at easy and standard he used HARD for the last one and the new AI really shined!

I saw the new jump-script in action, the new SM build-Order and couldn't find one thing to critique. The Skirmish AIs are much more dynamic and lively than anything i played before.

Excellent work. :bow:

Of course, if you decide to do another update to correct those problems with the other difficulties, that's o.k, but i don't miss them I always play on Hard.

Neolink

ah yeah that reminds me, the ai jumps a hell of alot atm, maybe even too much, id like to see the amount its currently jumping toned down abit as its getting excessive and on some maps it really ruins the experience

ThetaOrion

Yes, well, I'm kind of a strange one.

If I find an unbeatable combination at the HARD setting, I keep going back again and again to the same layout and map looking for a way to win.

And, if I keep getting beaten by that same layout over and over again at the HARD setting, then sometimes my next course of action is to switch gears to the STANDARD setting. Sometimes, if I can get a win at the STANDARD setting when there isn't as much pressure, then I can also use the same method to win at the HARD setting.

However, if I keep getting beaten at the STANDARD setting too with the same unwinnable layout and map combination, then I begin to think that maybe I have indeed ran into a situation that is unwinnable.

Even with the Skirmish AI Mod, I have at times played it at the STANDARD setting or tried to play it at the STANDARD setting. So yes, I would make use of it at times, if Arkhan made a decent or playable STANDARD setting for the AI Skirmish Mod.

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Edit: And, if jumping is giving Neolink and others a lot of grief, then maybe it could be toned down a bit at the STANDARD setting?

When it comes to the AI Skirmish Mod, the STANDARD setting doesn't have to be looked upon as a waste. It can be looked upon as an opportunity to try something different, imho.

thudmeizer

How can "excessive jumping" in DoW/WA be a bad thing? Troops/vehicles jump in.. do their damage.. jump out.. frustrate the hell outta ya all.

Remember everyone: the point of Advanced AI for any RTS is to frustrate the hell out of you. We're in the business to break your keyboards.

Please cite any AI-specific "jump tactics" that were misplayed or not useful. Anything that stood out - a scenerio?

Aralez

I like being jumped

The new jumpattacks are awesome, the AI uses them very cleverly, just like a good human player! They even teleport troops away that are under too heavy fire, wow.

Klementh

Yeah thudmeizer, that's what I use this mod for. I want the AI to be harder.
It's great that they jump all they can when it's useful, but some times they do so from too near when they've already been hit a lot by the enemy units. In these occasions jumping-in can be a waste of time and "energy"... really, besides looking dumb (time translating to hit points in the end). It looks and -most importantly- works better the farther they jump from. Anyway it's better than in 1.5 and it can only go better.

That's all? Well, I can tell you the standard difficulty went harder by replacing the strategy files and though it stayed well below hard, it's now more worth playing against.


ThetaOrion, By copying these files what I did whas to change the AI behaviour so even though it produces less in standard and easy settings thanks to the resource penalty, it uses a good brain.

I played one of these castle maps today 2 vs 2 in standard and it was hard because of the layout of the map (and my friends inexperience with the race he chose), but not unbeatable. If you want to play 2 vs 4 use easy or don't activate the mod at all. Because as thud said, it's meant to make the AI harder.

The AI playing at it's best while handicapped by resources: That's what we need from the standard and easy settings of the mod.

thudmeizer

Thats beyond the scope of this mod (we don't want to be editing LUA files - that goes well beyond what this project is intended). The AI uses the Skill level based on Relic's LUA setting for that difficulty. We'd best not be tinkering there.

the-tempest

I've got you up on Dawn of War Files Thudmeizer (this time we didn't forget you, sorry about last time again )

Klementh

I meant as good as possible. Just don't intentionally make it play any worse than in higher difficulties.

EDIT: incase you took me wrong, I'm not asking for new difficulty options! :omg:

thudmeizer

Thanks all for the "kudos and comments".. Makes us a nice Christmas gift in our hearts..

Klementh

Are you serious? It's the coolest and most useful mod in the history of RTS.

ThetaOrion

The AI playing at it's best while handicapped by resources: That's what we need from the standard and easy settings of the mod.

--

Well, that's basically what I was trying to say, but I was also seconding Arkhan's claim to having an easy way to do it. We don't want him to have to do a whole new mod, just go and do what he knows will make the STANDARD AI in the mod play better.

I think playing around with the STANDARD setting could give Arkhan the opportunity to find a different way of doing it or a different flavor to the game, but it won't happen unless the workload is kept quick and easy. Or Arkhan could do it the old way, the 1.0 to 1.5 way that he was talking about. Whatever is easiest to accomplish the goal. I have a feeling that Arkhan knows what he is doing and has a quick and easy way to fix what is bugging us. And, I liked the sound of what he was proposing.

I need the STANDARD setting to continue to produce less and to also attack the enemy when it is time to do so.

The other thing I liked about the AI mod was that the AI produced better bases.

The 1.6 AI seemed to be building better bases already 'as is' with the STANDARD setting of the AI skirmish Mod, better than what I was seeing the plain vanilla AI do at the same setting. So, that's already done. Maybe it was only an illusion, but 1.6 AI Mod at STANDARD seemed to be doing just fine when it came to base building? True, we don't want the IG or Eldar AI allies blocking the exitways or passageways. In that respect, we want the AI Skirmish Mod to be better than the plain vanilla, at ANY setting of the AI Mod. I didn't see any inappropriate placement of buildings, but then I wasn't playing with an Eldar or IG ally.

Anyway, for now, I just need the STANDARD AI of the 1.6 Skirmish AI Mod to attack the enemy instead of turtling up or wandering aimlessly. I can't even begin to explain how weird that looked when they wandered aimlessly all over the map, and then in and out of the castle, without ever once attacking an enemy base. I never saw the plain vanilla AI do that, though I imagine it might have been possible for such a thing to happen with the plain vanilla, it never did happen. But, aimless wanderings happened the first time playing the STANDARD setting of the AI Mod.

If Arkhan has a quick fix, I like the sounds of that!

And, if the STANDARD setting of the 1.6 AI Mod needs to be tweaked so that the AI allies won't build in the trails and passageways and exitways, then I put in my vote for that too, if it hasn't already been done.

ThetaOrion

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The thing that I hated the most about the plain vanilla AI was the Imperial Guard building their Mars Production Facility or Machine Shop in the middle of a pathway or exitway thus blocking you and themselves from ever getting out that way, unless your enemy AI is kind enough and merciful enough to destroy the blockage for you. It hated that blockage, more than I can tell.

And, everyone kept telling me to get the AI Mod in order to solve the problem.

So, if that annoying blockage 'feature' or locked passageways is missing from all the different difficulty settings of the 1.6 AI Mod, I'm perfectly fine with that!!

I at times got the feeling that the main reason people got the AI Skirmish Mod was so that the IG (and Eldar) wouldn't block all the passageways and thus put a premature end to the game, something that we often experienced with the plain vanilla AI and something want to be completely gone or completely fixed in the AI Mod at all difficulty settings.

LarkinVB

I still think the best solution would be to use the full brain (scripts) for all levels. Easy and standard are already handicapped by resource/power income reduction. No need to cripple them further with the scripts.