gr3ml1n

hi,

will the homeworld 2 source be released like relic did it with homeworld 1?

DatonKallandor

Relic does not have control over the HW1 or 2 source code. Its entirely in Sierra's hands. Incidentally they recently released the FEAR source code - a game much newer than HW2, so there is hope.

But its just as likely they forgot they even HAVE Homeworld 2.



Daton

Mikail

This would make an excellent addition to the FAQ.

evillejedi

before anyone locks this I do think it is a valid point for discussion amoung senior members.

fears source is somewhat different, the core exe is untouched, they just released the source to the single and mp dlls, no matter what you do you still 'need the cd to play' , homeworld2 is not structured like that, but it would be interesting to have dll source for debug.dll, fileparser.dll and objects.dll, other than that we would need the exe since it looks like most game logic would be in that, but I may be wrong (lua config may handle stubs for lua translation)

regardless we would need the exe source to be able to implement graphical fixes like adding in the normalization cube and upgrading the shader model to run faster


all in all HW2 source would be much better than HW1 source, which needed :
scratch written netcode
scratch written UI code
scratch written sound code
brand new renderer to actually take advantage of AGP at all (tex size limitations and textures.ii ugh)
rewritting the object structure from hardcoded to content based

as one of the few people that actually sucesfully compiled and ran the HW1 source and tried updating it (I have somewhat step by step instructions on doign this http://warlords.swrebellion.com/plog/)

with HW2 the only major changes I would attempt would be adding the aforementioned normalization cube and some other gl extensions (reflections, proper shadows and bloom basically)

better collision model (possibly integrate a real physics engine if ambitious) at least to support pyramids and spheres

some minor tweaks like shield stats, things like crew and battle fatigue etc that would be essentially a few lines of logic

player selectable sobs for scripting

really that's it, minor code changes would really open the game up much more so



I know petitions are pointless though having one isn't a bad idea, but we can all point to the SCP project for freespace and the BSG mod. the goal is to show vivendi why opening up the code is profitable (if you notice HW2 still ranks as a 19.99 game on their site while some newer titles are cheaper or not even in the store, obviously sales still exist)

Zatch

I'm not going to lock this, as EJ mentioned it's a good discussion topic and we might think up something to send Vivendi (along the lines of a petition) that could possibly lead to a source code release. We're not treading on thin ice here or anything, and this thread doesn't break any rules.

Also senior membership or a lack thereof implies nothing about a person's programming and negotiating skills. Just means they've used their skills to benefit the community.

Supernova

Heh @ EJ -- I thought the plog was gone?

Now, I have no idea how sierra/VU works but with a large enough petition or maybe just a really well written argument for the game (thats actually still selling a bit) we might be able to get them to release the source. The problem is how much code is proprietary?

I really have no idea what would be needed to get the source ready for distribution. If there is too much proprietary code someone will have to be moved over (as in a programmer at Sierra) to remove hack up the code for distribution. That costs money so there needs to be some sort of incentive for them to release the code.

Ej and I have talked a little be about it (as in very little) but the source for hw2 would be amazingly useful and better then hw1 (as mentioned above already).

evillejedi

I'm hoping that if we don't look for the vendor dll code (zlib, divx, MP code) we might be able to get a crack at it. the trick would be to justify sales to vivendi, if that can be done then I think they may be interested. (I really think that all sales now are driven by the mods and if not they are drivien by bargain bin people picking it up and saying 'HW1 was good, now this is cheap') there is a forum at vivendis site that still has active moderation going on, maybe some of us should check it out, bring more people to 'mod-awareness' and get more of them talking about it over there.

sanityflare

Ej has a very good point. The mods for this game are key to the above ( for me at least)

Take for example half life one, first team fortress then counter strike expanded that games life a hell of a lot with sales still going on even now.
Dont get me wrong I like hl1 as a single player game but it was the online mods that really made that game for me. Nothing since has used the above model properly. HW2 is pretty easy to mod compaired to most. Problem being making a complety new game type, like for example the way team fortress or counter stike where in essence a free game with commerical content, with tweeks to the code)

Then again hw2 mod tools while exelent still lacked a lot of stuff needed. For example theres the hw2Terraformer that uses the rest of the likes of Blinn, phong e and anisoptropic ( you can do this yourself by making a custom mel script though, but rather time cunsoming to do with no real reward for in game visuals).
We all know about the backgrounds and it does make most hw2 mods look simalir as all the good looking backgrounds are the ones shipped with hw2. While theres the cool background making tool ( exelent little programme by the way ) then with this tool you cant uv map anything etc so your stuck with it.
Lastly new features like for example how about the likes of stats being recorded like for example dow.


Sorry I digress a bit Anyhow yeah modding the game is the key to the source code for me

Unbekannte

Well, i wrote once a letter to Sierra, if maybe they interested in releasing the source (i tried to convince them by saying that source based mods could very well lift the sales of Hw2), but no answer came. Well, that was about 1,5 years ago. Maybe if more people ask (Vivendi) nicely, they will think about it.

Unicron

Having the source would be awesome; graphics in Nexus style . Not to mention getting rid of all the current limitations.

evillejedi

heh it's unicron!

well right now we can technically write normal map shaders, if we can find someone well enough versed in arb 1.1 (I got it to sorta work, but it wasn't pretty and also there is an issue of getting maya to export the map into the hod)

Unicron

With the source, how much work would it be to port the tools to XSI?

P.G.C

Will the homeworld 2 source be released ???

Sky_walker

Possible (some ppl never believed that source code of first HW will ever be released), but I doubt (it's too good engine to just throw it 'like that' into web).

P.G.C

Very bad that is not present
On скольку I want to make 3D jump hyperspace, without Source coda it is impossible !

I want to force to start animation of structures on model obj !